A man found himself amid domestic tension while his older brother was going through a divorce.
Families typically stick together in these kinds of drama, but he decided to side with his sister-in-law, which was unsurprising given the family's history.
When the guy's reaction to an awkward moment angered his brother, he sought judgment on the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
There, Redditor messy-BIL asked:
"AITA for not defending my brother from his ex-wife?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I (26 M[ale]) have a brother (29 M[ale]) who is going through a rather nasty divorce from his wife (30 F[ema]) right now that is completely his own fault."
"My SIL [sister-in-law] is apparently divorcing him because she got fed up with his lack of respect for her and his relationship with our mother. I've seen what she's talking about firsthand not just with her but in all his relationships."
"For context, My brother is the golden child ESPECIALLY to my mom. My parents have always thrown me and my sister (the oldest) to the side for him and his accomplishments and it's turned him into a giant entitled mommas boy even as a grown man."
The OP continued:
"I'm not gonna mince words, my brother's relationship to our mom is unhealthy. He claims I just don't know what a good mother-son relationship is like (which is fair as my mother doesn't like me) but they don't have any boundaries with each other and my mom is overbearing and one of those 'I'm the most important woman in my sons life' moms."
"She gets competitive with his girlfriends and is plain nasty to all of them, SIL was no different she was just willing to put up with it more until she snapped after a recent incident."
He went on the explain a recent incident that led him here.
"While he was at our parents house, my SIL texted him to discuss custody arrangements for their daughter, it devolved into an argument with him calling her all sorts of names and telling her to grow up with my mom egging him on."
"The last thing she texted was 'We'll talk when you take your mom's t*t out of your mouth and stop choking on her milk so you can actually act like a man.' " and then blocked him."
"He was pissed and telling us about it, and I couldn't help but laugh, and I asked what he expected; he's literally at our mommy's house crying to her about it."
"This really set both him and my parents off, and they all yelled at me about not supporting my brother, and now none of them are speaking to me."
"My sister sides with me and our SIL but says maybe laughing at him when he's already hurting is an AH thing to do. AITA for not defending my brother?"
Anonymous strangers weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Many Redditors thought the OP was not the a**hole (NTA) here.
"Nope. I would have pissed myself. My SO is an only child and his mother was not at all nice to me in the beginning of our relationship, but he doesn't play that and pretty much let her know her behavior would not be tolerated. NTA." – 74Magick
"NTA."
"I literally laughed out loud at what she said to him, and from the sounds of it, it was completely warranted, which is why it set them off so much." – Zenpora
"Nope. NTA. Well done. I wonder how he is at work? Does he bring your mom too?? I married someone like that. Didnt last. Divorce is bliss." – Ok-Listen-8519
"NTA it was pretty funny. Maybe he should climb back into mommys womb and cry." – EnterNameOrEmail
"NTA. I would laugh too."
"Also, the most thing he has hurt is ego. His presumed doormat wife has shining spine. If he really loved her, he wouldn't let your mother to be nasty to her."
"I am team SIL here." – Danube_Kitty
"NTA. Her response was epic."
"You can support your brother without bashing or disagreeing with your sister-in-law. You can keep him company, take him to dinner, play a game of tennis with him, help him find a new place to live, etc."
"You do not need to agree with anything he says or tell him that she's wrong. If your family doesn't like that, so be it. If it's true, it's true." – Special_Respond7372
"NTA. I'm sorry your parents don't realize that all of their children are equally wonderful and should be loved the same and appreciate you and your sister more. Let their 'little' family rot and go to hell."
"Live the best life you can for yourself and revenge is being happy and successful despite them and maybe later on if you want to, having a family of your own to love and appreciate like you could and should have been." – DealVisual
"NTA."
"But if you really wanna be helpful, use all the proof of emotional instability, manipulation, and toxicity to help your SIL gain full custody. If your brother can't have kids if he's still one."
"Help your SIL in any way you can, including providing proof or witness statements for the amount of toxicity in your family home with your parents and brother." – satanforeskin69
"NTA. Only in your brother's delusional world, with mommy, are you the AH. He earned every bit of that, and mommy did as well. Sadly, assuming dad is still in the picture, he is defending this, so he gets lumped into AH territory/world as well."
"Honestly, I'd laugh my arse off at this as well. – TheMerle1975
"NTA. He needed to have you laugh at him. You what weasel he is, and he deserved it. I hope you laughed long and loud."
"The best outcome for you is if his silent treatment turns into a permanent thing. For your sake, I also hope your mom gives you the silent treatment. Life without having to deal with a-hole relatives is wonderful. I know first hand." – More-Yogurtcloset531
"NTA. SIL called it like she saw it. I would've laughed my butt off after saying, 'Ooooo, ssss burn.' I'd be chuckling right out the door and laughing harder for them being mad about it."
"It sounds like he practically was begging for that insult. SIL obviously got a little too close to the truth for mama and her boy."
"Seriously, is he actually hurting? Mama was, after all, egging him on. I think you get a complimentary AH pass on this one."
"(laughing) Damn, that was the perfect epic burn and block." – Comicdusterian
"NTA."
"On a separate point. Even if you had a completely friendly relationship with him & didn't agree with the SiLs reasons for the divorce."
"You can still support someone and call them out, in private, on points where they might be in the wrong."
"Which you did. It's kinda hypocritical to moan about her saying he's attached to her teat, when he's literally in her house being egged on by her." – Alternative_Breath93
"NTA - I would've laughed my @ss off too. I also have a brother like this so I understand how you feel. And as for you not supporting him just remember that HE'S the reason for the divorce! And I honestly hope that that ex-wife finds somebody better." – tequilafilledocean
"NTA. I might not have been quite so blunt as your SIL. I'd probably have told him to loosen the apron strings instead. But yes I'd have laughed too at her comment so I don't blame you in the slightest." – Wooden_Opportunity65
"NTA both your brother and mom need a kick in the @ss, followed by intense therapy and maybe dad does too for buying into this sh*t show." – Equivalent-Talk-7095
"NTA. '...they all yelled at me about not supporting my brother, and now none of them are speaking to me...' TYL (today you learned) if you want peace and quiet, laugh at your brother. That's good information to have! Who knew it was that simple? /s" – ApprehensiveBook4214
"N.T.A. Your brother's own marital issues resulted from his bad behavior and his toxic relationship with your mother. Even though your laughter seemed a little harsh, you were right to choose not to stand up for him."
"The actual problems are his conduct and his inability to accept accountability. Your sister demonstrates that you are not alone in recognizing the dysfunction by endorsing your position." – Im_justpollyyy
"NTA, your mom says you are mad because you don't support your brother in a divorce? is she f'king mentally ok? when was she supporting you ever in your life? I would be laughing hysterically for 5 mins straight if this happened tbh." – Dear-Strike-4679
Overall, Redditors sided with the sister-in-law and thought her text was quite humorous despite its serious context.
Hopefully, the divorce will not get entangled in further conflict, and the two can move on from this.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp