Marriages, divorces, remarriages, and children all thrown together can be lead to family harmony.
But why choose a harmonious existence when you can be messy?
Several adults in a family seemed to think bigotry and drama were their goals in life until they wanted a favor from one of the black sheep of the family. When the response was "pay for my services or get bent," they were less than enthused.
So the black sheep turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Euphoric-Platypus599 asked:
"AITA for sending a price sheet to my family after not being invited to my half sister's wedding?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"Let's get straight to the point, I (22, female) am a full-time baker for a small business and a college student. I moved back up to my home state in September of 2023, mostly to get away from my toxic family and for better opportunities."
"Also to add why this is even an issue in the first place, my brother Jay (25, male) and I are the 'black sheep' of the family, mostly due to the fact we were born and mostly raised outside of marriage."
"The teasing and neglect only grew worse after our mother (44, female) married Jerkfish (54, male) and had our half-siblings; (20, female), (17, male), (16, male), and (11, male)."
"When I was a few months old, she got married. My stepfather, however, never really raised my brother or I."
"It was halfway my mother and the other adult figures around us. My stepfather always referred to my brother and I as 'another man's children' so, he wasn't obligated to raise us."
"I have a good connection with two of my half-brothers (11) and (16). Sadly, one of the only ways to keep in contact is having some sort of connection with my sh*tty mother."
"Now, here's the dilemma. My half-sister who we will call JoJo (20, female) is getting married to Rhitt (22, male) in July. My mom and grandma asked that I make them a wedding cake, which I would've happily agreed to if I was invited to the wedding."
"The thing is, they wanted me to make a cake fit for 200 people, get a hotel near them—they hate that I'm not a Christian, so they think I'll bring evil into their house—work for 3 days, and get a flight there and back.
"I'd have to pay for all of it. They think it'd be a nice gift to my sister. I just laughed and sent them my price sheet."
"They. Flipped. Out."
"I was bombarded with texts from them about how selfish I am, how I am truly vile, how I am toxic for expecting my family to pay for my cake when they could just go to Walmart to get one, etc..."
"JoJo even messaged me on discord a week after I had sent the price sheet and asked why I would charge her when I made my best friend a free wedding cake."
"I simply told her to f-off, as not only was I invited to my best friend's wedding, but I was the MOH and in a way it was a 'returning the favor' for being a genuinely good friend and helping me out when I was going through a lot."
"Jay and his wife had said I'm not wrong for it and they'd do the same thing. My boyfriend is on my side."
"However, a few people in my life are saying I should've just said a simple no instead of sending the sheet and that my response to my sister was harsh. So, I need an outside perspective, hopefully other bakers on here too."
"AITA?"
The OP summed up their situation.
"[I might be the a**hole for] sending the price sheet and how I responded to my sister's message. I think I might be an a**hole because I might have been a bit too harsh."
"I've recommended some good bakery's in their city that have good prices and match their values. Still tho, it's really stupid how they expected a free cake and a trip to make it all at my expense from me."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"So family should get a free cake, but not be invited to a wedding? Make it make sense."
"Maybe since they're so religious, you could send them links to Christian bakers. Therefore the cake would be blessed and not be made by the hands of a 'heathen'. NTA." ~ sunlightofourpast
"They can go to Walmart as they said. They don't deserve a nice wedding cake, whether from you or a decent bakery! NTA." ~ SimmingPanda
"Right? My my response would have been: 'Then get a cake at Walmart. What the hell are you bothering me for?' and hung up the phone. NTA." ~ Tip-Dapper
"I'm not understanding a few things. First off, obviously NTA."
"Where were you supposed to make this and store it? Procure all ingredients and transport it?"
"A nice gift‽‽ Round trip tickets, hotel, transportation, kitchen facilities, not to mention ingredients and time. I'm calculating and I wonder if ANYONE else hit that price point for 'a gift'."
"Not to mention, but importantly, with virtually no relationship what exactly was the communication going to be for design and flavor?"
"Given the circumstances, a price sheet was the kindest f-off they deserved. And yes, fellow baker here.
"Also, how exactly do they reconcile having apparently sin's incarnation make the cake?" ~ monkerry
"NTA. They expected you to pay for a flight, hotel, then spend days baking a wedding cake for a wedding you are not even welcome at."
"Why are you even in contact with this 'family'." ~ Dangerous_End9472
"NTA. If they're going to treat you as nothing more than their baker, then you are well within your rights to treat them as nothing more than potential customers." ~ Otherwise-Shallot-51
"NTA. Tell them, 'Sorry, the devil's food cake I was planning to make for her wedding would go up in flames as it entered your reception area. I'm just looking out for you guys. Lose my number'." ~ Trick_Delivery4609
"NTA. To make the cake for JoJo would be at considerable cost to you. Even if you were invited to the wedding, you should be charging them."
"I will never understand why people think they are entitled to someone else's hard work for free." ~ SusanfromMA
"Major NTA! This is absolutely disrespectful."
"My fiancé and I are planning our wedding and I made it very clear that if we expect any kind of friends/family discount for a service, they have to get an invite to the wedding."
"They want a free a** cake from you, for you to pay your way there, and they can't even invite you?"
"Disgraceful. Absolutely vile." ~ The_Iron_Mountie
"NTA. The format of your refusal doesn't matter. You could have been impeccably polite, and their reaction to any form of a 'no' to their bizarrely unreasonable demands would have been the same."
"These are people who 'hate that I'm not a Christian, so they think I'll bring evil into their house'. You can't reason with them." ~ Content-Plenty-268
"NTA—let me say it back to you."
Your low-contact family expects you to pay to fly there, pay to stay in a hotel for 3-4 nights, and spend 3 days working (where‽) on making a wedding cake for 200 people FOR FREE, all for your half-sister who isn't even inviting you to the wedding."
"Hell, no! They obviously don't value you or the work that you do, so I'd 100% encourage them to go get a Walmart cake." — DisneyBuckeye
"NTA. This is incredibly rude of them. Your family has essentially punished you for your mom's 'sins'. I would honestly cut contact over this. They do not respect you, at all, and are only willing to acknowledge your accomplishments when it benefits them."
"You do not need to get gifts for a couple when you are not invited to their wedding. They were in the wrong to even ask you at this point."
"That they wouldn't even let you stay because you aren't their kind of religious is another insult on top of insult."
"If you are not treated like family, treating it like a business relationship is fine. You simply let them know you weren't giving them a free cake on your dime."
"If you ever get married, do not invite any of these people. If kids are in your future, do not let them be around these people." ~ whichwitch9
The OP provided an update.
"I found out the exact reason for my brother's family and I not getting invited. Three months after my sister and her soon-to-be husband got engaged, my grandmother requested my sister not invite 'the sinners'."
"It was more along the lines of: 'If you don't invite your siblings you'll get a hefty portion of my will'. Don't really know what the proper term for that is, but I digress."
"So, my sister is catering to the needs of my racist grandmother over her own sibling's. I also found out another reason (out of the many) why my brother and I were black sheep in the family."
So, you see. my mother is Whiter than paper. My brother and I's biological father is Lakota/Sioux Native American."
"We were told he just left us 'because that's how the savages act' when in reality, our dad died from a terminal raspatory illness that he had since he was a toddler. Some cyst type of deal? Not too sure."
"The hatred from them only grew further when my brother married a Black woman and had my 3 nieces together—fourth on the way."
"I told JoJo how hurt I was by picking money over family, but I kinda expected it. She tried to offer me $50 to make the cake she wanted and I just declined."
Whew, there's a lot to process here—none of which will be solved by free cake.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp