For many, there is no price that you can put something as sentimental as an engagement ring.
But Redditor throwaway1846189 knows EXACTLY how much theirs cost after they had to look up the receipt.
You see, the Original Poster (OP) lost their ring when their nephews flushed it down the toilet.
Yep, and that's what led there to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA).
They asked,
"AITA for asking my brother to pay $30,000 for my engagement ring?"
They went on to tell the story.
"I hosted a family dinner over the weekend. My brother brought my nephews (4 and 8) over as well."
"I used to wear my engagement ring all the time, but lately, I keep it in my walk-in closet and mainly wear it for special occasions."
"While I was cleaning up the dinner table, my nephews went to go play while the adults were still in the outdoor patio/outdoor kitchen area. My brother was not supervising his kids."
"During this time, my nephews went into the master bedroom without anyone knowing and started playing with everything. Including my engagement ring."
"When we came to look for them, they panicked because they know they aren't supposed to be upstairs, ran into the master bathroom, and flushed my ring."
"We called a plumber in case it was somehow in the u trap of the toilet and not actually gone. But nope. Unfortunately, it was gone for good."
So the OP came back with literal receipts.
"We still had the original receipt, so I called my brother. I emailed him a scanned copy as proof of the cost and asked him to reimburse me for the ring my nephew flushed."
"Immediately, he started calling me an a**hole because we were family, and he was just a child. He has refused to repay the cost of my ring."
"I told him I will be taking him to court for this, and now my entire family is blowing up my phone, saying family shouldn't sue each other and just let it go."
"No, the ring was not insured. I found out the day after my nephew flushed it. My husband says he forgot and, in the end, never actually insured it."
"My brother says he does not have the money to repay even $100 per month and has refused any kind of repayment plan."
"He said I live in a nice enough house, and if I want a replacement, I should just sell my car."
"My brother, to this day, has not truly apologized. It was a Canadian sorry. Sorry, not sorry."
"He said kids will do what is normal for kids, and they shouldn't be held responsible for a ring."
"They were supposed to supervise their kids outdoors with the rest of the family while I was busy cleaning up."
The OP wasn't buying her sibling's excuses not to replace the ring.
"I don't believe for a second my brother and his wife cannot pay for the cost of my engagement ring."
"They don't make anything near my husband, but they have a combined income of around 250k."
"They don't pay rent or anything because my parents gifted them their old house valued at 3.5 million in Toronto, ON, CA, back when I bought my parents a new home years ago."
"There is no mortgage on the home my brother lives in. The only things my brother and his wife would have to pay for are the cost of raising their children, normal bills, and food."
"I feel so distraught because my ring holds great sentimental value."
"I've already been speaking with my husband's family lawyer, but at this point, I'm ready to hire a PI to find out if they really don't have the money."
"So AITA?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"NTA"
"His circus, his monkeys. He wasn't watching them. That's on him."
"100% he should replace your ring."
"As for all the family who is blowing up at you, it's easy, when it didn't happen to them, to preach forgiveness. Ignore them."
"Also, 8/4 are more than old enough to know better. My 3yo knows not to touch someone else's things in their home without asking."
"Choices have consequences, and sometimes those consequences are expensive!"
"Sorry this happened to you." - Tiffy_the_Doc
"You didn't insure a $30,000 dollar ring?"
"Edit: For those of you who say the insurance isn't the point- OF COURSE ITS THE POINT."
"The point of this whole thing is the sheer amount of money involved."
"Sh*t happens all the time. Kids get into things. Dogs eat things, and partners lose things. Anything that you value is on you to insure or protect."
"YTA for walking around with a 30K liability the size of a marble and then pointing fingers at whoever touched it last before it disappeared." - Future_Look6983
"INFO: Your $30K ring wasn't insured?"
"That's the first thing you're supposed to do because accidents happen, even if you don't wear your ring often. They get stolen, or niblings flush them randomly. Hence - insurance."
"Edit:: It's not ideal to sue him because he should never put you in this position. He should have proposed some sort of payment plan in some way, shape, or form."
"Since he was a giant AH about blaming you, now you're NTA taking him to court. Unless you have insurance and can handle it that way." - Major_Barnacle_2212
Some Redditors had questions.
"Are you sure they flushed the ring? This story is so incredibly strange."
"What are the odds that they'd beeline straight for the closet, find your $30K uninsured ring, and then flush it down the toilet?" - personofpaper
"Ya frankly, I think they stole it. An 8 yr old is smart, and not flushing a ring randomly down the toilet."
"8 yr olds are making Minecraft videos on their own social media accounts and streaming."
"That's an age that understands the value of jewelry, and there is zero chance they didn't know what they were doing."
"Frankly, with brother's reaction, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire family is against OP, who is clearly more successful than them and wouldn't be surprised to find out brother stole the ring as some sort of 'leveling the playing field' move within 'the family'." - Surfercatgotnolegs
Others had suggestions.
"Also, I'm just going to leave this here: I had a friend who worked at the municipal sewer plant in our town."
"There is a good chance that the ring could have been recovered (or even has been) if OP had called and told the sewer company to look out for it because of how…..um……things are processed."
"These things happen more than people think, and in reality, people can get their flushed jewelry back and then have it sterilized." - PNKAlumna
"NTA."
"Your family is right, family shouldn't sue each other, because it should be being repaid without courts." - FoxWyrd
"So, he doesn't watch his kid, and you are the a**hole if said kid damages your property?"
"I don't think so. If he doesn't cough up the money, do sue."
"(And this is why you better have insurance if you have kids.)"
"NTA (edited to add judgement)" - AlexTMcgn
"NTA - As the parent, he's responsible for the damage his kids do. And it wasn't even an accident." - Toxic Texas Male
"NTA. "We are family" and "it was an accident" doesn't absolve his responsibility for the damage he caused you."
"It's unfortunate that you have to sue him, but he's the one putting you in this position. He should have offered to pay you back in any way he could." - heidismiles
"NTA"
"'He was just a child.'"
"Then he should have been supervising his 'just a child' to ensure something like this didn't happen." - embopbopbopdoowop
"NTA. I would say not insuring the ring is not a smart move, but that doesn't make you an AH."
"However, not watching your kids in someone else's house? And getting mad when they ruin something when it's YOUR responsibility to watch them? AH move."
"Brother should have parented his kids instead of assuming everything would be okay, especially since one of them is only four years old."
"I don't know if OP can answer this question, but why in the world did they think to flush the toilet instead of just hurriedly putting it back where they found it?"
"Or just set it down on the nearest dresser, nightstand, etc.?" - DVKuno
"NTA, and I don't get these people saying 'oh you should've insured it' 'they are kids'"
"My kids know not to touch things that don't belong to them, and certainly not to go into any private areas of the house (bedrooms, etc.) and while if it was insured, it would be easier, it still doesn't negate the fact they went and touched your things when they shouldn't have even been in there in the first place, what if they had broken something that's irreplaceable (a painting of someone deceased, or a one of a kind piece)"
"If my kids damage or lose something that's not theirs, I'll still pay it, regardless of if insurance is on the damn thing." - amzi95
Well, OP, we're so sorry you're in this position.
Maybe next time, get a safe to go with that new insurance policy.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp