Teachers should be role models and set a good example for their students while in the classroom.
But what about when they're off the clock?
Such was the predicament that befell Redditor PhysicalLoss7706 – a 27-year-old kindergarten teacher who found herself in a confrontation with a parent.
The educator took to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit and asked:
"AITA for cussing and getting drunk in front of my kindergarten students?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained details from the incident that took place outside of her school.
"I'm a kindergarten teacher. I teach in person classes that are socially distanced, as well as online classes."
"Last weekend was my birthday. I went to a restaurant with a couple friends for outdoor dining. While we were there, two moms come in with their children and are seated behind me."
"I recognize them as students in my in-person class. They say hi to me, and I say hi back, but then don't interact further."
"Through dinner, I'm just enjoying my time with my friends. I have a few glasses of wine and get a little tipsy (not rowdy or obnoxious or anything). I'm conversing normally with my friends, occasionally using cuss words like 'f'k' or 'sh*t' or 'damn'"
"Not excessively, just the way some people would in every day conversation. Maybe a little more than I would have if I were not tipsy, but again, I'm not speaking loudly or anything. Just having normal conversations with my friends."
"One of the moms then comes over to me and reminds me that my students were there, and that I shouldn't be drinking and cursing in front of them. Since I'm their teacher, it was my job to set a good example to them."
"I just told her I was off the clock and that if it was bothering her, she could move or stop listening to me. She got all huffy, and they soon left."
But that was not the last time the two women saw each other.
"Earlier this week, I was called down by the principal who was with that mom in his office. She was angry and complained that I was setting a bad example for my students. And now her daughter was using some of the same words I was using, saying that if her teacher can say it, so can she."
"He asked for my side of the story, and I just explained exactly what happened. Given that she verified my story, he told her that I was not their teacher at the time, and since I wasn't doing anything wrong, they coudln't control my behavior off the clock."
"She protested a bit, but eventually left, but called me a terrible teacher. I thanked the principal for backing me up, but then he suggested maybe that one time I should have just stopped drinking and using foul language."
"I really didn't think this was a problem, since wasn't acting out. Just talking casually and enjoying a couple glasses of wine. But am I really the a**hole for drinking and using foul language in front of my students while off the clock?"
The OP later updated her post to clarify her behavior.
"I was not loud or belligerent or excessively drunk. I had two glasses of wine. And when I say I was tipsy, that's a bit of an exaggeration. It takes more than two glasses of wine for me to start feeling anything."
"I wasn't screaming obscenities. I was just using slightly foul language in casual conversation (e.g. 'The news is shit.' 'It's too damn hot to be fall.')"
Anonymous strangers on the internet were asked if and where guilt belongs by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Redditors weighed in with their responses.
"NTA. They can't expect you to be the teacher 24/7."
"Also it's a nice teachable moment the mothers could have used, but chose not to.
"Words don't have power, unless you give them power. 'F'k' is just a 4 letter word, no different than 'ball.'"
"Teachers are people, too." – noraya_bo
"NTA, it's honestly my biggest pet peeve that people don't think teachers have a life outside of school. You are allowed to have a life, this mom needs to back the heck off." – ACBaker99
A fellow educator reserved judgment and pointed out the unfortunate reality of their profession.
"Eh, but I can say as a teacher, one of the things they warn you in college and at orientation for a job is that you do represent the school. Technically, because she said hi to them, that means she's recognizing them as students and is representing the school by default (arguably)."
"It's a gray area that's always worried me because I'm young and teach high school, but as long as I don't go viral, wear school apparel, or is during school hours they cant do anything."
"I'm also going to assume if they heard the cussing then it wasn't quiet or anything and most likely was loud. Restaurants even with covid and social distancing are generally loud, so to be able to hear that would mean she probably was which in general isn't a great look."
"Its absolutely sh**ty and I hate it, but society sucks. But in general, this is a golden rule of thumb teachers have... don't get tipsy or drunk or curse in front of your students... in or outside of school."
"Because they'll always remember it and thats your reputation for a longtime. Unfortunately, this mom will most definitely tell other moms in the area about this encounter and it won't be a great look."
"Again, I'm not saying I agree with it, its just the reality of it." – symphony789
Other teachers came forward to share the consequences of certain behaviors outside the classroom.
"Yeah, I almost got terminated from my student teaching position because of my cover photo on Facebook, I was at Lollapalooza, wearing festival clothing, just like my friends in the photo."
"I don't really go on Facebook so I forgot this was my cover photo. My students found it, went to a bakery, asked them to decorate the cake with the photo, and brought it to school."
"I changed my cover photo so fast to a picture of my dog and was basically slapped on the wrist dont post photos where I'm dressed like that. I teach high school so its a slightly different story."
"I don't blame her for not taking the risk. I generally run in the opposite direction though, just because I'm unsure with some parents how they'll react. Better safe than sorry." – symphony789
"Yeah, and I have learned I have to be extra careful around my students if I see them in public. I look 15 and teach high school and I'm not much older than them and they easily think 'I'm like them.'"
"I buy all my alcohol at liquor stores because I once bought alcohol at a Walmart and one of my students saw, and the first thing she does in class is bring it up."
"Not a problem because I'm a legal age, but it creates a classroom management issue that with my inexperience at the time was hard to shut down. At least this will be an issue that goes away when I'm older (I hope)."
"Parents also gossip way too much. And kids misconstrue what they tell their parents a lot. So it's just better safe than sorry and avoiding he said/she said." – symphony789
"Yeah, it's absolute sh*t. I know a teacher who got fired for posting pictures of herself drinking wine in Italy. She tried sueing for unlawful termination and lost."
"Like what else do you do in Italy... but drink wine... thats why I'll never accept parent friend requests." – symphony789
"Can confirm coming from a family of teachers. They make this very clear early on in the program - teachers answer to higher expectations."
"It's not that they can't drink or have fun, but that they have to choose the location very, very carefully. And for good reason." –mockingbird82
A handful of Redditors still thought the OP should have been more discreet.
"ESH. I was leaning NTA but you seem to be arguing pretty hard in the comments that you bear absolutely no responsibility here."
"Mom absolutely should not have addressed this with you or the school because you're a person who can enjoy a personal life."
"Little kids will always idolize you as a teacher though. Seems like your attitude towards that is a giant f'k you I'm off the clock.' It's not hard to be a little sensitive to the kids' needs in the real world." – Hippocr1t
"This exactly. I'm a grade school teacher, and I still sleep around, drink, and even occasionally get high, but I never put myself in a position where my students would see any of that."
"There are 18+ only clubs, actual bars, and other places where I can f'k off and live my life. If OP's students were there, then this was likely a restaurant and not a place where parents would expect to expose their kids to such things, from their teacher no less."
"But the parents can also use it as a proper teaching experience for their kids. My students know all the bad words, but they know they still shouldn't use them in class." – PapaSmurf1502
There remained two camps of Redditors – those who believed that the OP should be able to live her adult life outside the classroom without scrutiny; and those who believed the OP should have adjusted her conduct knowing she was in the presence of her students.
Expectant Dad Of Two Livid After Brother Questions Why He'd Bring Another Kid Into Bleak World
It's no secret that a lot of people are struggling right now, from the cost of living to job insecurity to food insecurity to poor housing. But that doesn't mean we have to stop living.
For many people, that means still starting and growing their families, while planning how to navigate the world we're currently in, pointed out the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor DesignerOwn1141 and his wife knew that the world around them wasn't at its best right now, but they were eager to grow their family and were excited to bring a third child into the world.
When they announced their pregnancy, his brother's first reaction was to send him articles about how the world was doomed and shame him for bringing a child into it; the Original Poster (OP) wondered if he needed to block his own brother.
He asked the sub:
The OP and his wife were excited to welcome a third child into their family.
"I am 33 and male. My wife is 29."
"We have two sons, a six-year-old boy and a three-year-old boy. Both are happy, healthy, and well taken care of."
"We love being parents to them, and I work very hard to provide a good life for my family."
"My wife is four months pregnant with our third."
The OP's brother's life was very different from his.
"My younger brother has been something of a failure-to-launch case."
"Despite having every advantage, he never got good grades in school, was addicted to 'League of Legends' so severely that he barely scraped by, and spends his days streaming games to nearly no viewers on Twitch."
"I've watched his stream a few times, but he just rages constantly."
"My wife is too classy to ever say so, but I can tell he makes her uncomfortable."
"He's my brother, so I've long wanted to believe he's just bad at communicating with people, but to be frank, he's sort of just an a**hole. He's unapologetic whenever he says something hurtful and more likely to just double down and say, 'No cap.'"
"But if anyone so much as challenges his views, he throws a huge fit."
The OP tried to share his happy news with his brother, but his brother immediately squandered it.
"Recently, we announced she was pregnant with our third child. It's a joyous occasion for us because we wanted three children, and our other two sons are excited about having another brother or sister."
"When I texted my brother the news, he immediately said he couldn't imagine having children with the world the way it was."
"I asked what he meant, and he started sending me these articles about global warming, the plague in Russia, wars around the world, and so on."
"He seems convinced that the world is going to end in ten years tops, and that I'm only bringing up another child to die in the 'water wars.'"
"I was honestly disgusted with him. To tell someone that their unborn child is going to die, that their other children are going to die, is absolutely abhorrent behavior."
"But since he's always been a sensitive s**thead, I just said, 'Whatever, man,' and stopped reading his texts."
"He wouldn't stop. He kept sending me every doomer article. He said that when the clouds evaporate, the earth is going to get 15 degrees hotter. He said that AI is going to hack every government database. He said that China is going to invade Taiwan, and then it'll be war with the US and allies against Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran."
The OP had had enough of his brother's negative feedback.
"Finally, I just told him I was blocking him and thought little of the decision."
"He went and cried to our parents (again, he's the most sensitive s**tbag in the world), and they told me what I did was over the top."
"I know that if I unblock him, he's just going to doomspam me again."
"Am I wrong for just straight-up saying I never want him in my life again?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that they understood why he felt the need to distance himself from his brother.
"NOR. He sounds insufferable."
"He sounds like one of those people who doesn't like his life and so wants everyone else to be miserable too, or makes excuses for why he didn't do more with his life by blaming his problems on some external crisis." - savingrain
"NOR. He's allowed to protect his peace, especially if his brother keeps ignoring boundaries and turning every conversation into another end-of-the-world prediction, and having kids is hardly a reason to apologize for trying to build a good life despite everything going on." - Upper-Cloud9097
"NOR. But your brother is on his way to a full mental breakdown. Send him back cute dog and cat videos. Cute horse videos. Ozzy animal voiceovers."
"Eventually his phone will start thinking he's like me and his feed will calm down." - Present_Original_797
"I mean, my beliefs and thoughts about the future are along the same lines as him, and that’s why I’m an anti-natalist, but there’s something called tact. And personal choice/autonomy."
"If someone chooses to have kids, that’s their choice, and I’d keep my opinions to myself and be supportive, especially if they’re a family member. Spreading doomer content is extremely insensitive and rude. NOR." - EngineerGold4242
"NOR: I wonder whether your brother is displaying sibling jealousy towards you and your family; he recognizes his own shortcomings and can see where he is in life compared to you, and that is his major issue."
"Days filled with unfulfilling computer games and doomspamming others, he has a lot of maturing to do. Block him until or unless he decides to join the adult world and be the uncle he is supposed to be." - iron_redditman
"NOR. I have all those fears and as such actively avoid news about them. I skipped whole paragraphs here for that reason too, lol."
"I’d definitely block my sibling or anybody else who did that to me. I already know all these things; I don’t need constant reminders. All I can do is work on improving my little corner of the world and trudge forward."
"Anyway, protect your peace." - hahagato
"You are not obligated to bond with someone just because you share blood. It’s your peace and your family that you need to protect now. If you decide to go zero contact, it’s perfectly okay!"
"Especially because you and your wife are in charge of two, almost three, little guys, and your mental peace affect directly to them."
"PS. Historically, the world has always been on the edge, but nothing stops us to be what we are, humans trying to get over all the s**t! So don’t let those bad things put you down. We can build a better world by raising kind, lovely people, and it seems you and your wife are doing it. Good luck!" - Camigatoespinace92
Others advised the OP to involve his parents in case they could help his brother.
"Unblock him and then send everything he texts you to both mom and dad. No comments, just forward it."
"They'll think you're sending it, and when they complain, you can tell them that you thought they'd be interested in your brother's articles as well."
"NOR." - No_Address687
"NOR. Your parents don't know the half of it. Forward everything and let them read it for themselves." - Available_Agent3305
"NOR. I’d keep him blocked; your parents are wrong. If you want to be petty, start sending your parents article after article of stuff you know they won’t like. They will get the hint soon enough." - OldieButNotMoldy
"I would also go low contact with the OP's parents. OP is clearly NOT the favorite son. Any boundaries he put up with his brother will be considered wrong. NOR." - Interesting_Novel997
"NOR, but also my first reaction is that your brother isn't a 'sensitive s**tbag,' he is struggling with anxiety/depression and maybe undiagnosed neurodivergence and is drowning in his own ruminations. None of that makes this an appropriate response to a pregnancy announcement; it's clearly not. But he sounds like someone who is clearly struggling here."
"If it were me, I'd be sending your parents anything he previously sent you. If they share your concern after reading a few articles, maybe they'll take steps to help him." - 2kidsnomoney---
"NOR. I'm sorry to say this, OP, but your brother has not been socialized normally. He is a chronically online loser who thinks he can do and say whatever he wants and does not understand there are no consequences because there are often no consequences when he does it in a league match or online."
"It frankly sounds like your concern for him and his future is budding into resentment and contempt, and I feel like, as most brothers would, those are not the feelings you want to hold towards him."
"I have a brother like this. He was diagnosed as an adult with Asperger’s and now just a spectrum autism diagnosis, but he’s a real a**."
"You may have to unblock him to communicate fairly. It may be worth doing this in person because it’s easier for the chronically online to 'craft' their retort rather than be a part of a conversation."
"Before you can do that, though, you need to sit down with your parents. You need to explain and be able to articulate that:"
"1. His reaction to the wonderful news of you having another child crossed the line and was inappropriate."
"2. There need to be reasonable consequences or boundaries because you are no longer willing to put up with that."
"3. It is his call at this point whether or not he wants to be in your life and your children’s lives."
"You have to have their buy-in; otherwise they are just going to continue to coddle and enable this behavior."
"Then you need to sit down with him and your parents, intervention style. You need to present the same argument you did to your parents, and in all honestly, I would question him in return: what was he hoping would have been the outcome of that conversation?"
"Did he want you to say he’s so right, so smart? Did he want you to go to your wife and tell her to abort? Does he feel like he is in a place in his life where he can be your family planner and manager? When he crosses a line, what does he feel should happen?"
"Only when he is directly confronted, and you have the right supports in place, can he be presented with how his behavior affected you and what that could possibly mean for his relationship with you and your growing family." - allison_mossie
The subreddit understood feeling burdened by so much negative information during what should be a happy time of planning and anticipating a new addition to the family, but the OP needed time to think about what he wanted his larger family dynamic to look like.
That might mean removing his brother, so that the OP could protect his own, and by extension, his wife's and children's, mental health, but it might mean minimizing contact with other people, too, if they weren't willing to respect the OP's boundaries he had for his family's life.