No matter how hard some may try, our emotions are the one universal thing that no one has control over.
Particularly when grief comes into play.
As grief has a way of affecting our day to day life in ways we might never expect.
Often having a deep impact on our relationships, for better or for worse.
Redditor Thedefiantmessenger recently lost her husband.
Unfortunately, the original poster (OP) did not have the best relationship with her late husband's children before his passing.
Nor did their relationship get any better after he died.
Not helped by the fact that they wanted something that the OP was not at all willing to give them.
Concerned she may be in the wrong for feeling this way, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for not giving his ashes to my husband's children?"
The OP explained how her relationship with her stepchildren went from bad to worse after her husband's passing:
"My husband had been sick for a long time."
"I was his carer and was able to work from home to be there when he needed me."
"When we went to hospital I was his advocate."
"His children would call or stop by just to ask for money."
"I even gave up a works bonus to give it all to his daughter."
"We took £1000 out of our limited savings to help the other with the understanding she would pay it back."
"We did not expect massive payments, just like £20 a month."
"My husband finally realized what they were doing and stopped giving them money."
"This was about 2 years before he passed."
"The girls stopped calling or coming by at all once the bank dried up."
"I could see how badly it affected him, at times he would just stare off into space and say he missed them."
"Both girls had changed their phone numbers and had moved from their home so we had no way to get in touch.our numbers were the same."
"The landline was about ten years old and the mobiles about 8 years."
"So they could have called anytime or stopped by as we had been at that address for 14 years."
"He passed at the end of December."
"It was really unexpected as he was doing ok."
"I was absolutely hysterical about his death."
"And then I found out the corner may wish to do an autopsy, as it was unexpected."
"The time of year made a backlog of cases for the coroner, so we had to wait."
"It took me a week to even think of notifying his daughters."
"I realize I should have tried to reach out earlier, but I was not doing well with the loss."
"I remembered one of the daughters having a Facebook account, so I looked through and found her."
"I sent her the message 'please call, urgent.' I got a call almost immediately and told her what had happened."
"About 20 minutes later, there was frantic knocking on the door."
"The younger of his girls was out there spitting fire, it took me a week to tell them."
"She asked when the funeral was being held, and we told her we didn't know but would be telling them the minute we found out."
"She accused me of lying about it and that I wouldn't let them know when their own father's funeral real would be."
"A few days later, I started getting text messages with 'I want this item or that one.' It was becoming ridiculous."
"I rounded up everything that had been theirs and gave it to them."
"Plus more from the texts they asked for."
"It was funny after 2 years of silence, suddenly they wanted rings of his."
"I was finally able to arrange his funeral, and a few days later, his ashes were delivered to me."
"The final text I got from them was Can we have some of his ashes for remembrance jewelry? '"
"I said No."
"I told them my husband had never even wanted me to notify them he had died."
"So I wasn't going to give them any of his ashes."
"AITA for not giving them some of his ashes?"
The OP would later return with an update, offering some more information as to why she waited as long as she did to tell her husband's children about his passing:
"What you have to understand is I got up to use the toilet at 3am went back to bed next to him and then woke up at 4:05 am and he was gone!"
"He had a DNR in place so I couldn't even try to give him CPR."
"The doctor was called and I sat downstairs waiting for the results of the exam to verify his death and I honestly thought the doctor was going to say I have arranged ambulance to rush him to hospital."
"Instead he said his condolences."
"Called the police to stand guard over our bedroom until the corner got there hours later."
"I was in such shock I sat in his favorite chair, for days, barely ate, and just stared at nothing."
"It took a week for my brain to even comprehend he was gone."
"Kept thinking he was just at hospital."
"I have learned since that the trauma of waking up next to him kind of shut my brain in down to try and protect me from the pain."
"So I agree they should have been told right away, but I was in no state to think rationally and as soon as my brain stated working I tried to find a way to contact them."
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
While the Reddit community was somewhat divided, they generally agreed that the OP was not hte a**hole for not giving her late husband's ashes to his children.
Most agreed that since the OP's stepchildren only relied on their father to get them out of financial hardships, they were unworthy of inheriting his ashes:
"NTA."
"Their behavior is abhorrent."
"That said, I wouldn't make or be pressured to make any big decisions right now."
"If all the legal actions are completed, including funeral arrangements, hit pause."
"You need time to process, grieve, shake your fist at the sky, and start to heal."
"Give yourself some grace."
"In six months if you feel the same way, then nothing changes for you - keep the ashes."
"If you find yourself willing to part with some ashes, so be it."
"Arrange it through a neutral party - his kids' treatment of you is awful."
"Another option or compromise is to leave his ashes to them upon your passing."
"Bottom line, NTA."
"I'm sorry for your loss."- Reasonable-Bad-769
"NTA."
"Do what you want with the ashes and block communication with his free-loading kids."
"It takes time to grieve, and you don't need the irritation of dealing with selfish brats."- LompocianLady
"NTA."
"When my husband died, I couldn't part with his ashes for a while."
"I did give out 14 year 14-year-old daughter some in a locket, but the rest of his family no."
"I didn't want to separate him out, I wasn't ready to let him go really."
"You do what you need to do, and the rest can just accept it."- SpencersLady73
"NTA."
"If he didn't even want them informed, you've done what's needed and more."
"Could have packed their items and shipped it to them instead."- CompetitiveBuddy3712
"NTA."
"When the bank closed, they quit visiting, so that shows they had zero care about him, just his money, so go strictly by his will, wishes."
"If there is nothing required to give to them, they should get nothing."
"Tell them they should have thought about that when he was alive, and they could have visited."
"Their lack of caring about him ended and inheritance."- olderguy6432
There were some, however, who felt that grief was getting in the way of everyone's ability to see clearly and make decisions. Many felt that as they were his daughters, the OP's stepchildren were deserving of his ashes, even if they found her hesitancy to hand them over understandable:
"NAH."
"This is a tricky situation."
"Everyone sounds emotional."
"I think that you should give them some ashes."
"Your husband does not care."
"Your husband is not in those ashes."
"The ashes are dirt."
"Your husband is in a better place."
"If the kids want dirt… what does it harm you to give them dirt?"
"Anyway make the choice that you can live with best."
"I am sorry for your loss."- ScaryButterscotch474
Children wanting possession of their late parent's ashes is not unusual.
However, seeing as the OP's stepchildren were only interested in being involved in their father's life when they needed something from him, one can understand the OP's hesitancy.
As many have suggested, though, perhaps it would be best for everyone to wait on making any decisions on this matter until after their judgment won't be affected by grief.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp