Communication is one of the greatest abilities we have.
We can solve problems or repair relationships with something as simple as words.
The trouble is that words aren't always helpful, especially when you use the same ones often.
So, what happens when someone tries to communicate and only finds the situation worse off?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) Hot-Purple-4907 when she came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
She asked,
"AITA for telling my husband he was cleaning the toilet wrong?"
Right to the problem.
"I (30F[female]) asked my husband (31 M[ale]) to clean the toilet because I'm pregnant and throwing up often."
"For a variety of reasons that are equally our fault, the toilet in our master bathroom has gotten quite gross though we have kept the guest bathroom cleaned."
"I was frustrated that he didn't do it yesterday like he said he would (I've thrown up in a gross toilet twice since he said he'd clean it), so I nagged him to do it today."
"I'm in our room, so I'm like 10 ft from the bathroom and hear him immediately start scraping the bowl with a pumice stone."
Proper procedure.
"I interrupted him and told him he needs to scrub it with the toilet brush first to get like the gunk off first and that the stone is for stains."
"Kind of like how you would wipe crumbs off a counter before scrubbing any gunk with a scouring pad."
"He got annoyed and said, 'I know how to clean a toilet.'"
"I told him with how dirty it is going right in with the pumice is gonna get it all nasty and that he should do toilet brush first, then the stone."
"I often find that he doesn't seem to know basic housekeeping skills, but instead of taking my advice, he insists he knows what he is doing."
"For example sweeping the kitchen before wiping off the counters or doing the stove before the microwave and the microwave bits getting on the clean stove."
"He uses the wrong settings on the washer or dryer and frequently forgets to clean the lint trap."
"I dont judge him for not automatically knowing these things. We all had to learn at some point."
"But he gets so defensive when I suggest there are better/cleaner/more efficient/safer ways to do certain household chores."
"Mind you, these had been primarily my responsibility since he works more (I am not currently employed, and before that, he contributed more to the household financially even when I did work)."
"But he is having to pick up some slack because this pregnancy is kicking my a*s."
"I feel like maybe I can be too harsh, but I also was very explicitly taught how to clean (I had a rotating chore list of about 2-3 hours of daily chores including everything from sweeping, mopping, bathrooms, laundry, kitchen deep clean, etc) and he was not."
"I wish he would defer to my expertise instead of just doing it wrong and insisting it's fine and he knows what he is doing."
OP had more to say.
"Yes the toilet was dirty but not to the point of the pumice being necessary, IMO cleaner and a scrub brush would have sufficed."
"Kind of my point to my husband that he should have used a scrub brush first."
"For those curious about why a pumice stone would ever be necessary we have very hard water that can stain the porcelain around the water line of the bowl, not stains from the toilet being dirty per se."
"Never had to edit twice but pregnancy brain jumbles my thoughts:"
"Overuse of a pumice stone on porcelain causes damage."
"Using it gently to spot clean the water ring stain is fundamentally different from using it to clean the whole bowl."
"I didn't make that clear and should have because a trend I'm seeing in comments is people asserting it is an issue of personal preference."
OP was left to wonder,
"AITA?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: NAH
A pumice stone? Really?
"I'm 28 and thought a pumice stone was for feet 💀💀💀" ~ PlentyPrice2493
"To be fair it sounds like neither of you know how to clean a toilet."
"A pumice stone? Are there barnacles or something??? What on earth are you guys pooping?"
"NAH" ~ fast-and-ugly
"I'm 38 years old but was today years old when I learned that some people scrub their toilet with a pumice stone… mind blown" ~ Unlucky-Sweet4026
Deeper issues?
"You should not need to spend 2-3 hours each day to maintain a clean house."
"That and the fact that you think a toilet requires a pumice stone makes me believe you were raised in an OCD household and don't realize it."
"NAH." ~ DJ_HouseShoes
"2 to 3 hours a day???"
"What in the f**k needs to be cleaned for that many hours in a day every day.... "
"That's insane and ridiculously demanding for both of you.... And you don't work or have a kid yet.... Sounds like you are bored or have OCD"
"That's super demanding of his time as well if he's working and supporting you and then comes home to be shouted at for doing chores 'wrong.'" ~ insomniacinsanity
"I have to go soft YTA here only because I feel like this sounds like a pattern on your behalf that would get really annoying to live with."
"Having preferences on how things should be cleaned does not mean your way is 'correct"'.
I'd need more information to be sure but… things like picking the 'wrong' setting on the washer… is it actually 'wrong' or do you just not like the setting??"
"My (recently diagnosed OCD) mother is the same way."
"She has very particular preferences about cleaning, about anything really, that always made it really hard to contribute when I lived with her."
"You put the dirty dishes on the 'wrong' side of the sink or you put the spices away in the 'wrong' cupboard etc etc (you see how these are actually preferences, not something that could be objectively correct or incorrect?)."
"You think you're being helpful and responsible cleaning up after yourself and contributing to the household and then someone lectures you about doing it 'wrong'".
"When in reality, 'clean' is relative, and there's honestly no wrong way to clean outside of mixing the wrong chemicals and accidentally creating a toxic gas."
"Now I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like you either have compulsive cleaning issues, OR you're just on some weird power trip about him not 'differing to your expertise'".
"Either way, let the guy figure it out on his own as long as nothing he's doing is genuinely dangerous (I'll give you the one about the lint trap for this reason.)"
"Learning by doing is a lot more effective than being lectured by your wife like she's your mother." ~ hetheysamwinchester
"ESH I'd just say let him figure out when he's doing it wrong (he is) and only help when he asks."
"You were raised in an OCD household, and some of that has rubbed off on you. Don't make YOUR place an OCD household as well."
"Just because you're right doesn't mean you have to win." ~ anna_ihilator
Preferences.
"Yta."
"There isn't a 'correct' way to clean, there's simply your PREFERENCE for how you like things done."
"My husband is super picky about how things are cleaned to the point where he does 90% of the cleaning because I'm tired of being told how I'm 'supposed' to do it."
"(Never mind that I was in my thirties living alone when we met and had been cleaning since I was a literal teenager, never living in filth)."
"Is the end result a clean (insert whatever is being cleaned here)?"
"Then who cares how it's getting that way? It's controlling and irritating to have someone looking over your shoulder to dictate how you do things."
"Stop it." ~ lezlers
"Right - it seems like a huge portion of this is that he pulled the wrong tool out of the toolbox."
"Making his life slightly harder (or easier) by cleaning by a different method or chronology is NOT the same as taking an impact drill to something that only needs a screwdriver."
"To reiterate if not clear:"
"NTA."
"Not a sign he's the worst, but highlighting an area of communication and specific language that will help you understand each other."
"It's not coddling to have these conversations about standards and preferred delivery."
"But you've both got to approach that less emotionally and without the shame of feeling 'caught doing it wrong, or any defensiveness."
"Y'all might be just fine, but learn to assume the best intentions of each other if you want the relationship to survive/thrive."
"If he's open to it, maybe couples therapy could be a catalyst for better communication patterns."
"After initial indignation, a lot of people come to appreciate the accessibility of nonjudgemental, moderated spaces created by (good) therapists." ~ ProctologyAndGambler
Communication isn't always about what you say but how you say it.
And sometimes, it's just better not to say anything at all.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp