No two people share the same standards of hygiene and cleanliness.
Some are much more officious and neurotic about things like washing their hands and keeping their living area neat and tidy.
Others might not lose sleep over forgetting to wash their hands here and there or not immediately picking up after themselves.
One would imagine, however, that both of these groups of people would at least share the most basic standards of hygiene.
The girlfriend of Redditor ProfessionalRare3519 certainly did, until the original poster (OP) casually told her of a common occurrence in his bathroom.
An occurrence the OP's girlfriend found anything but common.
So horrified was the OP's girlfriend by his newly discovered habit that she stormed out of his home.
Feeling his girlfriend's reaction wasn't justified, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I the A**hole" (AITA), where he asked fellow Redditros:
"AITA for not telling my girlfriend that I pee in my shower?"
The OP explained why his girlfriend stormed out of his apartment in disgust:
"Let me get right to the point:"
"I 25 (M[ale]) pee in the shower."
"I thought everyone did."
"My whole family pees in the shower, as do all my friends."
"I don't pee in a shared shower like a dorm or a locker room, nor do I pee in someone else's shower when I'm a guest in their home, but do I pee in my own shower?"
"Hell yeah."
"So I've been dating my girlfriend 'Jessica' 25 F[emale] for several months now and she stays at my apartment at least a couple nights out of the week."
"Things were going very well until yesterday."
"I got home from work late, and traffic had been really slow."
"I had to pee so badly, but I also felt sweaty and gross,s so I wanted to shower."
'When I got home, I was in a frenzy, but I still gave Jessica a kiss like normal."
'Then I immediately went to the bathroom, took my clothes off, hopped in the shower, and let the most relieving pee I've ever let out."
"After that, it was smooth sailing."
'I did my skincare routine, changed, and began making dinner for Jessica and me."
"Jessica came into the kitchen and asked how I was and I responded with, 'Ya know, nothing feels better than a good ol' pee in the shower'."
"She started to laugh, and when she realized I wasn't laughing she said, 'You're joking, right?'"
"I was like what do you mean? and she went, 'You don't ACTUALLY pee in the shower, do you?'"
"When I told her I did, in fact, pee in the shower, she got really upset."
"She said it was nasty that I peed in my shower and that I should have at least told her so she would have known to wear shower shoes."
"I told her I didn't think it was a big deal–that EVERYONE pees in the shower– and that if she was worried about that stuff she should just bring shower shoes when she stays over at someone's house."
"She called me gross and insensitive as she packed up her things and left."
"I REALLY didn't think I was in the wrong here, but Jessica is normally super chill and down to earth about things, and we've never had an argument like this before."
"Is she overreacting or am I in the wrong?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH – No A**holes Here
While the Reddit community was somewhat divided, they generally agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for telling his girlfriend that he pees in the shower.
A number of people agreed that the OP's girlfriend overreacted and that peeing in the shower was a completely common occurrence, with some even convinced the OP's girlfriend must have done it at least once herself:
"It's like there are two camps that never knew the other existed."
"I always assumed that everyone peed in the shower."
"Now I discover that whole swaths of people think it's just short of murder."
"What a world!"
"NTA."- nonameplz87654
"NTA."
"I'm a woman, I pee in the shower sometimes."
"It's not a big deal."
"I never understood why that was considered gross when menstrual blood goes down the same way, it all gets washed away, and if you wash your tub regularly there shouldn't be any issue."
"I don't think it's your responsibility to make her aware of your shower-peeing habits so she can prepare."
"If I was taking a shower at someone else's place, I'd give the tub a cursory scrub anyway because I'd feel like my level of cleanliness is my own responsibility."- CrimsonKnight_004
"NTA."
"As a plumber I can tell you it all goes to the same place."
"As long as you're not taking a dump and waffle stomping it down the drain (please don't do that for a lot of reasons)."
"I don't think it's a big deal."
"All sorts of more disgusting things go down drains than urine."- UnderstandingLive520
"NTA."
"Listen."
"It's a shower."
"You don't lie down in the shower."
"The pee goes straight down the drain."
"It's not gross at all."
"You would literally never know this was happening."- volumeoforgottenlore
"NTA."
"'She said it was nasty that I peed in my shower and that I should have at least told her so she would have known to wear shower shoes'."
"This is some magical-a** thinking, that shower floors are clean, and urine exposure would make them much dirtier than they already are."
"Your body is covered in FILTH."
"Unless you're a hardcore bidet enthusiast, you've got literal sh*t sticking to your a**, all day long."
"You are using the shower to remove that sh*t."
"And it's got nowhere to go but the floor."- StAlvis
"'THEY'RE ALL PIPES!!!' - George Constanza."
"NTA."- discobrad85
Others, however, understood the reaction of the OP's girlfriend, agreeing that she deserved to know much earlier that her bare feet were stepping in the same place the OP's urine once flowed, and the OP was anything but accurate in assuming everyone peed in the shower:
"YTA for bs'ing."
"All your friends don't do it, and not everyone does it."
"It's fine that you do, it's your home, your choice."
"It is kinda weird how often you talk about it, though."
"Between your family members, friends, gf, and now Reddit… that's kind of frequent."
"But it is kinda gross."
"Especially if someone in your household enjoys baths (I think baths are gross too, btw)."
"I'm curious as to how often you actually properly clean/scrub your shower/floor."- SafeBetFret
"YTA."
"She now has to step in places where you peed."
"If you must pee in the shower, you should not admit that to anyone, because then they will think you are disgusting."- Tiresometruth
"So to set the scene, you are in the bathroom, you really need to pee, so your idea is to take off all your clothes, start the water in the shower, and then pee in there, instead of, just pissing in the toilet."
"Usually, when I really need to pee, like when I wake up in the morning, I use the toilet and then take a shower."
"Also, not everyone pees in the shower. Are there any other gross habits you haven't told your girlfriend about that you do in your house?"
"YTA."
"Seriously, the toilet is right there next to the shower."- lord_buff74
"YTA."
"Each part of the bathroom has a function, and you don't mix functions."
"You stand in the shower. I don't care if you are washing, you're standing in pee, and there is no chance all the pee is moved unless you waste liters of water afterward."
"You stop peeing in the shower today and things are fine."
"You pee, then shower."
"Very easy."
"There was a story here of a man finding out his wife poops in the shower and then stamps it down the drain."
"That is why you stop."
"We all have oddities, but it is better we act respectfully to others and not indulge our oddities."
"You might date a women and doesn't use any menstrual products and free bleeds in her own bed."
"You might have a buddy that licks their own spoons and puts them back in the draw."
"It's their space, so who cares."
"The answer, you do when you share their space."
"We should all act civilized or keep people 100% out of our spaces."- NamedHuman1
While a few felt that the OP hadn't done anything wrong, his girlfriend's reaction was also justified, as they clearly did not share standards of cleanliness:
"NAH."
"But no, everyone does not do this."
"I also found this pretty gross when I first experienced a partner doing it."
"But not shower shoes level."
"Give her a little grace. Some people don't like to think about urine being in a place where they get clean."- Bedquest
"NAH."
"You're not an AH, not everyone pees in the shower, but a lot of people do and clean it after."
"You probably should've told a white lie instead of proudly proclaiming you pee in the shower."
"Jessica isn't an AH because it is understandable why she would be grossed out about that fact."- DJ_Too_Supreme_AITA
The OP is in no way the only person on earth guilty of peeing in the shower. And it is, indeed, a fair argument that a lot of grime and filth, other than urine, ends up on the shower floor.
That being said, a lot of people would rather not need to think about that.
The OP's girlfriend is one of those people.
And the OP's declaration of his lack of inhibitions made it impossible for his girlfriend not to know what she was stepping into.
Resulting in an almost painful case of "ignorance is bliss."
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp