Potty training is a difficult time for parents.
The uncertainty of how long it'll take or when the kid will need to be changed again always add a certain amount o stress to any outing.
What happens when that stress is compounded by a sibling's discomfort?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) Weird-Outside-577 when she came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
She asked:
"AITA for causing family drama over a swimming pool?"
OP got right to the situation at hand.
"So I know from experience that Reddit isn't the most understanding towards parents of young kids."
"But I really just want a third-party opinion because this situation is driving me crazy and my family are saying I need to get over it."
"I (F30's) live with my partner and our two kids, ages 7 and 3."
"My older sister 'Ava' (also F30's) and her husband recently purchased a house in the local area."
"It's a super nice place with a big yard and as you can probably guess from the title, a swimming pool."
"Ava recently hosted a barbecue at her place. It wasn't a huge event. She invited me, our parents and our other siblings."
"She mentioned letting the kids play in the pool, so I only assumed my kids would get to be included"
The complication.
"We are potty training, although my youngest is still in diapers at the moment."
"At the barbecue, I was getting my youngest ready for the pool by changing him into a swim diaper."
"Ava pulled me aside and told me she doesn't think it's 'hygienic' for my youngest to play in the pool, since swim diapers don't hold pee, and she asked that he doesn't swim in the pool with the other kids playing in it."
"I didn't think this was fair and told Ava that lots of people, adults and kids, pee in the pool, and it would be no different at a public pool, so what's the problem?"
"She was being really condescending and wouldn't listen to me at all and said that he can play in the pool when he's 'toilet trained' and said it's not fair on the other kids."
"At this point, my son was crying because he wanted to swim in the pool, and I told Ava she was being cold, but it's her house and her pool, so do what you want."
"Ava accused me of trying to guilt trip her and told me just to drop it."
"I was getting upset myself at this point, and I told our parents and other siblings about what Ava did."
"They told me it's not a big deal and that it's not worth arguing with her over and try not to let it bother me."
"I wasn't happy with this because this essentially means they're siding with her and downplaying how she treated me and my son."
"I left the barbecue early with my family because we didn't feel welcome after that."
"The next day Ava messaged me a whole paragraph and said that she's 'sorry' that I'm upset and that she wasn't trying to exclude my son for the sake of it."
"It was a super non-apology, and I told her I don't want to hear it and that she's damaged her relationship with her nephew and she's not the one who had to deal with him being upset."
"Ava snapped at me out of nowhere and said I'm being dramatic."
"I told her to grow up and said that I have a very valid reason to be mad, and she needs to stop acting like a teenager."
"Ava showed these messages to everyone and everything's just a bit up in the air. I feel like I'm right here, but the rest of my family doesn't seem to agree."
OP was left to wonder,
"AITA?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: YTA
The direct approach.
"How the fuck are people voting N-T-A here??"
"YTA 100%!!!"
"First and foremost, it's not your pool. It's Ava's."
"And It's totally reasonable for her not to want your kid's piss in it." ~ fhdjdfhjdfjhdfjdf
"Thanks, I thought I was going crazy. OP is absolutely TA"
"'lots of people, adults and kids, pee in the pool'"
"That's why OP's sis has a private pool with a no-pee policy." ~ DapperSmoke5
Sanitation Concerns.
"YTA."
"Not sure why peeing in the pool is considered OK by a lot of people, but it's f**king disgusting and your sister has a right to say no." ~ EnoughOrMore13
"Also, I don't know the details of swim diapers, but if pee from them isn't held in, I don't think they are really isolating poop from the pool either."
"Maybe you wouldn't see a full-on turd floating in the water, but you'd basically have a sh*t teabag." ~ Griffin880
"Swim diapers don't absorb liquid. That's why they can be in the water. So pee and loose stool is going right into the pool, 100%."
"It'll contain solid feces long enough for parents to change the diaper." ~ lucky7hockeymom
Private pools mean private rules.
"YTA."
'"Told Ava that lots of people, adults and kids, pee in the pool, and it would be no different at a public pool so what's the problem?'"
"But this isn't a public pool."
"It's her private pool at her house, and if she doesn't want to risk having someone piss in it, she should be able to make that call without being argued at."
"Peeing in public pools is gross and wrong too, FYI."
"EDIT:"
"Just because other people do it doesn't make it fine, lmao. Instead of rushing to defend this behavior, have you considered just... Being better?" ~ Prince-Lee
"To be fair though, there is a huge difference between a code brown in a much larger public pool and a small private one."
"Also, when you go to a public pool, there is kind of a mental expectation of a bit of grossness-"
"Whether as part of the bonus of having a private pool is that you don't have to share grossness with strangers AND you get to stop people going in who you know will make it unsanitary- e.g. toddlers who aren't toilet trained." ~ grammarlysucksass
"YTA."
"She has a private pool so she can avoid the problems that come with a public pool." ~ Wandering-Fairy
Some saw both sides.
"Yikes this is a tough one."
"I'll go NAH bc I see both sides to this."
"A private pool is a bit different than a public pool that allows kids in swim diapers."
"It's smaller and you generally need to use chlorine and much less often than they do at a public pool."
"On the other hand, I cannot imagine inviting friends or family over and not allowing the little ones to swim."
"That's basically torture for the kids and parents. I'd just suck it up that it might mess with the levels, and I'd have to treat the water more often." ~ yeahipostedthat
Escalation is bad.
"Yta."
"She probably could've cleared it beforehand, but my eldest sister has a pool, and whenever there's barbecues, the toddlers never get in it for the same reason."
"Either way, its not your house. Just get over it. Your toddler probably forgot about it at this point." ~ koiashes
"This is the most sensible response."
"On OP's side, I can see why she's upset that her kid was left out, and it all could have been prevented if her sister had informed her of the rules beforehand."
"On the sister's side, I think it is 100% reasonable to not want someone to sh*t in your private pool, even a kid."
"Also, as someone who doesn't have kids, I can also see how she just might not have realised that it would cause such upset to her nephew."
"What isn't reasonable is OP's huge escalation of the situation."
"She's taking her sister's totally reasonable request far too personally, and acting like the relationship with nephew is 'damaged' is manipulative and ridiculous- as you say, he's probably forgotten by now."
"This is not the kind of fight that should last a long time- OP and sis should just both take a moment to be privately irritated with each other and then move on." ~ grammarlysucksass
Not everyone was against OP here.
"She could have told her this BEFORE the kid was already getting changed and avoided two adults and a child having a meltdown over it." ~ Suspiciouscupcake23
"Swim diapers are acceptable at ymca, hoa, great wolf lodge, water parks all of which have much higher standards than Ava's backyard pool."
"It would never be assumed someone invites you over but wouldn't allow a baby in the pool."
"You don't need to ask an absurd question that goes against something socially and hygienically accepted across the board." ~ AnywhereNo12
"I'm having a pool party for the kids to swim, potty trained only."
"See how short that was."
"Pool party potty trained kids only! Even shorter."
"Not that hard."
"Also I have 6 sisters trust me I know which kids are potty trained or not. Sisters talk about their kids especially when it involves stressful things like potty training." ~ Comprehensive_Sock49
Potty training is hard, but is a dirty diaper worth damaging a relationship?
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp