Traditions are important to many people and can be especially meaningful when it comes to family.
But traditions don't always carry over well.
This can be a difficult issue when gift-giving.
Case in point...
Redditor travelinman55 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for not carrying on another family's tradition?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"In our house, we have two birthdays coming up."
"My wife's son Marcel (turning 16) and her daughter Marceline (turning 13)."
"Asking them what they wanted for their birthday, they both said that just wanted a 'normal gift' which was great."
"Seeing that I was confused, my wife helpfully reminded me of the 'traditional luggage gift,' and then I realized."
"There was a family tradition of giving kids a luggage set for their 16th birthday, yes, but that was my ex-wife's family, not mine."
"I was never even involved."
"It was always a thing for them."
"A few decades ago, one of my ex's sisters got a job at a high-end luggage company and took over for the next-gen of the family (my daughter and her cousins) because she could get it for really cheap with her discount."
"My daughter is the youngest of the kids on that side, and around the time she was turning 13, between the aunt knowing she would be retiring soon and some personal drama, they decided to give my daughter her set for her 13th birthday so she wouldn't be left out."
"I've always thought that tradition was stupid and a stupid amount of money to spend."
"Even $1,000 is way too much to spend on luggage for anyone, especially a kid."
"I wouldn't spend that much on myself."
"I tried to tell them all of this."
"My wife thinks that by letting my daughter participate (by accepting the gift), I've made it my family tradition as well, and now I'm just singling her kids out. I'm not."
"Not caring about her accepting a gift from her own aunts doesn't mean I don't still think it's stupid."
"There's a LOT of difference between 'You can't have this because it's not worth buying' and 'You can't have this because I think it's inappropriate or dangerous.'"
"Also, it would be even more expensive for us to buy it for them than even the aunt spent on my daughter."
"My daughter's set cost me $0, and her aunt $1,000 as she had a discount."
"Buying the other kids' sets would cost me $2,000 each, so $4,000."
"Now everyone is upset at me because I'm apparently making it clear that I don't care about Marcel and Marceline as much as my daughter because I'm breaking tradition and telling them they don't 'deserve anything" that my daughter had.'"
"Am I wrong for thinking this is ridiculous?"
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this..."
"So the sister of the woman you are no longer even married to is now retired and no longer buying the discounted but still crazy expensive luggage... and now your wife thinks that YOU should now spend a total of 4 grand on luggage for her kids who were never related to or knew the aunt??"
"$4,000 for luggage... for teenagers??"
"LOL... Oh hell no. NTA." ~ StonewallBrigade21
"For teenagers that explicitly said they want 'normal gifts.'"
"Luggage is not a normal gift... NTA." ~ Appropriate-Yak4296
"NTA. Your daughter received a birthday gift from your ex's family."
"You did not buy it."
"This gift has nothing to do with your stepchildren."
"Knowing this, your wife should have managed her children's expectations."
"Her thinking that they should get the same thing for their birthday as your children and their cousins on their mother's side set her own children up for disappointment."
"The cost of the luggage set is irrelevant, but unless you are in the top 5% income bracket, the price tag on that luggage set is ridiculous and impractical."
"That luggage set goes into the trunk of a Bentley." ~ Wonderful-Result2036
"OP, I brought my own luggage set piece by piece."
"You could buy a basic 3-piece 'starter set' and if they want to expand on it, they can use their own money."
"Or, you could tell your wife that since the set your daughter received actually came from your ex-wife's side of the family, it is up to your wife's family to buy the luggage set and not you."
"If you split finances or share finances but have separate fun money, your wife can also use her fun money for the purchase."
"Luggage for the 16-year-old would be fine, but not the 13-year-old unless you travel a lot and she packs her own bags."
"Your wife is entitled, though, for deciding that your ex-wife's traditions are now hers too." ~ Environmental_Art591
"Who says the luggage has to be the same brand as your children?"
"You could get them both a set of cheap luggage that isn't a brand name as their gift."
"If they complain, just say that they seemed so keen to have their own luggage set that you wanted to get them one."
"But obviously, you couldn't afford the type your children's aunt purchased, as she had a lot more money, plus was able to get a significant discount." ~ Rockpoolcreater
"I'm 37; I still use one carry-on-sized suitcase that I got on Amazon for $35 ten years ago when I go anywhere."
"For family vacations, I pack mine and my husband's clothes in that suitcase; we each have a backpack for things like medications and toiletries, chargers and tablets, and our kids share a kid-sized suitcase from Target.
"Like. I can't even imagine buying a luggage set." ~ InterestingNarwhal82
"I still have my luggage set that I was gifted, and it was about $200 at the time, I just looked up some fancy one, and it's $300-400."
"Where are you getting $1000+?"
"I think having good luggage is a great thing but $200 to $300 should provide a great set and continue on this tradition- didn't know this would be."
"My family just thinks it's a good thing to have that no one would buy for themselves and can be very useful."
"I'm at a loss why $1000+ is required???"
"NTA, just don't get the price point indicated." ~ EquivalentCommon5
"NTA- that's a stupidly expensive gift."
"And it's not one you ever gave out, and these kids are not related to your ex-wife's family at all, so why would it matter what their gifts or traditions were?"
"You never gave a luggage set as a gift."
"Why do the 16 and 13-year-olds think an expensive luggage set is the 'normal gift?'"
"If I'm understanding correctly that is not a family tradition they were ever raised to expect, it is your ex-wife's family tradition."
"Why do they even want luggage?"
"That's such a boring and not at all fun gift, even if expensive." ~ ShillBot666
"NTA- you're not breaking a family tradition."
"It wasn't your family's tradition."
"It was your in-laws."
"You are no longer associated with that family outside of your kids."
"If your wife wants to have this tradition, she can do it out of her own pocket, not yours."
"I can't even understand how they would think this extends to them in the first place."
"1- it's not their family that had the tradition..."
"2- you never bought the luggage for anyone..."
"3- even if it was your tradition and you bought the luggage, the luggage hook-up is retired now." ~ BluePopple
"NTA. It's not your tradition, nor theirs."
"It was your ex's tradition."
"Her aunt gave her the luggage, not you."
"If they want luggage, stores sell them for $20-50."
"I've had mine from Walmart for 14 years now, and it's still in good shape and used multiple times a year." ~ oaksandpines1776
"NTA... and your wife 100% put this idea into her kid's heads and wants it as some weird vicarious status symbol for herself."
"No 13-year-old in their right mind asks for luggage."
"DON'T GIVE IN, THIS IS INSANITY!!"
"The gift was not from you so you're not treating anyone differently."
"If your wife is so jazzed for overpriced luggage, then she can buy it." ~ MargaretHaleThornton
"NTA, your current wife telling you that because you allowed your daughter to accept an expensive gift from her aunt now it means you have to buy the same expensive gifts for her children is a really, really, really big leap."
"I suppose if it means that much to your current wife she can call your ex-wife's sister and ask her to give the luggage to her children as that's how your daughter obtained the luggage."
"Be a good husband by not laughing at her when your ex-wife's sister laughs in her face." ~ adventuresofViolet
"NTA. I don't really understand this."
"It's not your tradition - it's your ex-wife's sister's as she bought people some fancy luggage as she had a discount."
"I assume your ex-wife's sister won't be buying your new wife's kids gifts."
"Don't get you being the bad guy."
"Also kind of intrigued that a 16 and 13-year-old genuinely want luggage as their birthday gift." ~ Arstanoth
"NTA, but your wife sounds pretty manipulative and possibly outright greedy."
"She sees her kids as competing with your daughter and is manipulating them to think the same."
"That's never going to change and will likely get worse as the kids get older."
"You need to put some serious thought into that." ~ Melzilla79
Well, OP, Reddit is with you.
Luggage feels like an odd thing to be upset about.
You wanted to do something different.
No malicious intent was involved.
Hopefully, you can all unpack the hurt here and travel past it.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp