Every generation of parents will be different than the last, and hopefully in most ways, each generation will be an improvement on the previous ones.
But when a grandparent tries to force their beliefs on their grandchildren, it can be really hard to move forward, cringed the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor truthhurtsb***h1 had to provide all kinds of free labor when she was young, and she promised herself that her sons would not have the kind of childhood she did.
So when her mother started demanding that her sons do things for her when they became teenagers, the Original Poster (OP) immediately shut those expectations down.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for telling my mother that my children are not her free labor?"
The OP did not want her childhood for her sons.
"I (45 Female) have two boys (ages 15 and 13 Male)."
"When I was a kid, I was severely parentified. Looking back, I understand that at the time, there wasn't a whole lot else that could be done."
"My mom was sometimes working three jobs, my sperm donor was abusive and left her with all the debt in the divorce (by threat of offing all of us in the night), and it just happened. This sucked, but was pretty much one of those, 'It sucks, but the alternatives are much worse' kinda deals."
"Then she married her second husband, mostly because she couldn't take care of us all on her own and pay all the bills. Bob was a d**k and did f**k-all around the house. So it didn't really do much other than he contributed money to the bills."
"I spent my preteen and teens being used as labor. A neighbor needed a sitter for the night? Guess who was voluntold. My step-siblings came to visit? Of course, Bob couldn't be bothered so he'd literally leave as soon as I got home from school to force me to babysit."
"He worked as a manager in a fast food place, and I'd have to go and wash dishes for hours without pay so that HE could keep his labor hours down. I never got an allowance for this s**t, and I never got paid."
"If a neighbor offered, they'd decline on my behalf, insisting it 'built character.' I did all the housework. I did 90% of the dinners at night. I was the one held responsible for if my brother didn't do his chores... you get the idea."
"As soon as I got to college, that stopped. I wasn't living at home anymore. I didn't have to basically keep house for a family of four (or six when the step-siblings were visiting). I vowed to never do that to my kids."
But when the OP's sons became teens, she was disgusted when her mother tried to put them to work.
"Flash forward. My boys are now teens. My mother has divorced Bob and is married to Kyle."
"Kyle is amazing. He treats my mom like gold; he's a wonderful grandfather to my kids. Overall, my mom has gotten to the light after a really bad life and two bad marriages."
"However... she STILL thinks that anyone younger than her should just do whatever work she wants done. She's all the time carrying on to me about how I 'need to get those boys out here to split wood' or 'bring the boys out, I need someone to mow the field,' or 'You guys need to come over and help me clean the house' (which, I have done in cases where she/Kyle was in the hospital or infirm for some reason)."
"S**t like that, all the time. They live on a farm with three dogs. They've both retired and basically just live on the property. Quite honestly, I imagine when Kyle eventually passes, she's going to sell and move back into the city. He says he wants to be buried there."
The OP set a boundary with her mother.
"I wouldn't mind having my kids help out, but she wants hours of physical labor from them and no pay. When it comes up, it's 'it won't hurt them none' and 'they need to come help.'"
"I finally told her the other day that my kids aren't her FREE labor crew."
"I don't mind them doing a couple of things when we visit to help out, but I am not sending them out there a few times a week all summer just so she can have someone to do all the physical stuff she can't/doesn't want to."
"I got stuck being the family work dog, and I'm not going to allow my sons to have the same issue."
"She's in her mid-60s and does have some physical limitations of her own, but it's the attitude of entitlement that does it for me"
"As it is, I make sure that I pay my kids if they go over and do any work for her because I'm not going to be having them not understanding their worth. There's a time and a place for 'helping out' but there's a fine line between that and being taken advantage of."
"Otherwise, she's a great gramma, always has been. It's just like she was waiting for them to be old enough for her to start this s**t."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some could not imagine how the OP could keep a relationship going with her mom.
"Am I understanding that your mother allowed Bob to treat you like a slave in your own home and at his work without intervening, and yet you've remained in contact with her?"
"No apology for how you were treated? You're a better person than I am. I wouldn't let my kids fetch her a glass of water, paid or not." - Ok_Childhood_9774
"I would never speak to my mother again. And going after my sons?! H**l no." - OkBreadfruit2181
"Why do you still have this woman in your life and in your kids' lives?" - shammy_dammy
"Ask why you keep in contact with this woman." - Sea_stone_green
"Definitely absolutely NTA. And yes she was waiting until they were old enough to start this s**t."
"Good for you. If you don't correct your mother NOW, she runs the risk of damaging her relationship with your children. People have an innate ability to understand fairness and you know she's trying to cross the line."
"As a mother who has had to stand up to my own and to my MIL, you are doing the right thing. Be strong!" - busyshrew
Others reassured the OP that she was right to advocate for her sons.
"You're protecting your children from being parentified like you were." - Odd-Crew3757
"It's not easy cutting off own mother, even when she treats you like crap. But the important thing is that OP isn't letting that same behavior continue with her own kids and that already makes her a thousand times better than her mom ever was. NTA, of course." - divinexxcharm
"NTA. Don't reward bad behavior. She needs to do it herself or pay to have it done. She doesn't get a free pass. Then, she needs to move to a smaller place that she can manage. Not your issue." - Lucky_Log2212
"I'm guessing your boys would be better spending their time on paying jobs. Her chores are not the responsibility of her grandchildren. NTA." - mdthomas
"I think you have to have a talk with your mother and explain her what 'parentify' is, because she normalized it in her life. Was she treated the same way by her own parents?"
"What your mother made you go through is inhuman. I don't know you, and I am particularly upset about you having to go to Bob's workplace to wash dishes for hours without pay. No, that's not 'building character'; that's child labor and is forbidden in any decent country in the world."
"Also, tell her you don't need parenting classes from her, you learned a lot already by what she did to you."
"And stop paying your kids to do stuff for her. Your mother has to recognize their worth, or she can do her own chores."
"Of course NTA, but I honestly think your mother hasn't realized how bad this is." - Melodic-Dark6545
After receiving feedback and questions, the OP shared more details about her mother.
"I grew up in the Bible belt, very cult adjacent. So 'good deeds' were a HUGE thing. My first husband was super into that cult-adjacent religion. Husband two is super Mormon. So, a lot of times, if I was helping babysit or something like that, it was viewed as a 'good deed' and expected as part of religion."
"That did stop once I did have an actual job that I was making money from. Bob would frequently try and get me to give up my paycheck. My mother never let that even be considered. Though I was still managing the household chores and cooking most nights."
"Her childhood was way worse, while I'm not saying that excuses everything, when you're about the fourth generation in a family where drunken brawls in your livingroom were a regular occurrence and where women literally lost babies because family pulled chairs out from under them 'as a joke' when they were eight months pregnant, your normal meter is always going to be skewed."
"My mom, to this day, says I'm the best mother she knows. She wishes her mom had been as good as I am, or even that she was HALF the mother to me as I am. She understands, but this is the last 'thing' she seems to cling to. I think a lot of that stems from HER being the workhorse in her family."
"She's even taken care of her siblings (who were all older) in the last years of their lives. She's buried three brothers, her mother, and a sister now. Just one left and so far, they're the only one that hasn't moved in with her for care. In fact, I will joke with her about her sister coming to live with her like the rest."
"I sometimes wonder if the reason she clings to it so hard is because she does wear herself so thin and a bit of 'I help everyone else, why won't someone help ME' seeps in."
"Money is a contributing factor. They're not rich by any means. They get by, Mom and Kyle are both retired. He's several years older than her, and has health issues of his own. Honestly, I doubt he has more than maybe five years left. I really wish she had met him so much sooner in life."
"So hiring out isn't exactly easy. Part of why she hasn't sold the place and moved somewhere smaller or more manageable is because Kyle doesn't want to leave his home. I fully expect that when his time comes, she's going to sell the place and move back into a city where she'll have all her maintenance handled by landlords."
The subReddit applauded the OP for standing up for her sons and protecting the childhood that was not protected for her. While everyone could understand times being hard and help being needed, there are limits to that, and they shouldn't involve "building character."
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp