When a person finds love, the person they want to spend the rest of their life with, they hope their friends and family will accept and embrace the person as they have.
Unfortunately, that's not always the case.
Sometimes, the animosity is justified because their beloved is a destructive force in their life and their friends and family want to protect them. But sometimes, it's their friends or family who are the problem.
A husband dealing with a toxic family situation turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Imogeniusmoreno asked:
"AITA for not making the trip cross country to meet my nephew because my family are a**holes to my wife?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"Hi. My family hates my wife."
"They don't like that she took me away from the east coast. She was bigger when we met. She didn't go to a good school. She doesn't want kids. She's too girly then not girly enough. She can seem cold at first because she is a little reserved. And on and on and on..."
"It has been hard. I was close to my brother. But he led the charge early on because she called him out for something and he didn't like it."
"My little sister is the most neutral. I've tried to talk to them about it so many times, but eventually just realized it wasn't going to change. I love my wife. I have no regrets."
"This past Christmas will be the last. They didn't give her any gifts, excluded her from the cookie party, and I caught mom and my aunts talking about her twice. I got us early flights and took her skiing."
"Her dad loves me. We have weekly cigar walks. Her mom drops by just for hugs. Her brothers and I have our own group chat. Her sister baked me a f*cking birthday cake. It should be this way with my family. I'm trying not to be all emo, but this sh*t hurts."
"My brother (the favorite) is having his first child in July. They have asked me (not us) to come meet him. I told them no. I'm sick of the bullsh*t."
"Unless everything changes, I'm not going to waste my money. Mom got on the phone and told me I don't have to bring her, I should just come myself. I said no, we're married, we're a package deal."
"She twisted it to, 'Oh, so she won't let you come unless she comes too?' and I told her no, I'm saying this. I'm sick of them treating her like sh*t. It's Jerry Springer levels of trashy."
"Dumb thing to say and it set her off listing all the grievances they have with her. Some of it is just stupid. She carries a water bottle wherever she goes. Yeah, mom, she's from f*cking California. We all do."
"Dad jumped in to back up mom and accused me of holding adult problems against an unborn child. Said that I'm really going to not be a part of my nephew's life because my wife can't get along with the rest of the family."
"This is what I'm stuck on. Am I wrong?"
"I do want to be in my nephew's life, and it isn't his fault. But it feels wrong to reward them because it just won't ever end."
The OP later added:
"[My brother] made a snide comment about her being Apache and how 'they' were all the same to him, and it didn't matter if she was Apache or Comanche or 'Cheesechokchok' or something like that. She called him out directly and he overreacted like crazy."
"He's the favorite, so they took his side. The craziest part of that is that it's not how my family is."
"Like, I know we have all been doing reflecting after everything in the world the past years, and my family was always on the left side of things and standing up for people who don't look like us."
"It really, really shocked me when he said that, and that my family immediately backed him up."
The OP summed up their situation.
"I told my family that I'm not coming to meet my nephew because of the way they have treated my wife. It makes me the a**hole for holding a grudge against a kid who hasn't been part of any of this."
"That's why I'm the most concerned. I don't want the kid to come into the world owing a debt, I guess."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
Originally there were mixed reactions to the OP's post, but once he revealed his family is racist, Redditors called out not only his family, but also the OP for keeping them in his life. Especially when his wife's family have fully embraced and accepted him.
"So your brother was being racist, and dismissive, and she rightfully defended herself. Gotcha."
"Wow. That's not something you can walk back." ~ EmploymentLanky9544
"So your family is racist against Native Americans. Great. Like the water bottle comment wasn't enough to piss me off. Your family is trash. Sorry not sorry."
"Speaking as an Indigenous person, ask them what if he said that to a random Native American person on the street, and that person defended themselves and said he's racist. What then?"
"Maybe show this to them and tell them that he was being racist towards Native Americans."
"And our tribes are our heritage. For him to dismiss that and joke about it is f*cking disgusting."
"You should say, 'well, with my brother as a father, that unborn child is probably going to grow up to be racist, so why would I care to meet them?'." ~ SassyNerdGirl
"STOP TIPTOEING AROUND YOUR BROTHER'S RACISM!"
"They're trying so hard to deflect the real problem, and that's acknowledging your brother's ignorant a**! There are so many comments asking you why you're dodging the subject, and it sounds like you don't want to address it, but your wife deserves support after the stuff your brother said."
"Your family can be as far left as they want; that doesn't absolve them of racism. I get that it's hard, but either you go no contact or call your family out on being complicit in racism and trying to paint your wife as the problem."
"Stop straddling the fence, because a kid isn't going to change anything. You're the adults, now act like it." ~ Ok_Bit1981
"Oh, no. You need to just go completely no contact with them. They are racist, and it sounds like you have all the family you need with your wife's family." ~ MrsBoo
"I guess you found out your bio family is a set of closet racists. Hypocritical ones too who pretend to be all progressive—but only when 'people who count' are listening."
"When people show you who they really are, believe them."
"Holding it against your wife for defending herself against a racist tirade? OMG. You lose nothing going no contact with those dreadful people." ~ MistySky1999
"Racists exist in every group, even liberals. The fact that your family seems to tolerate folks of different races and ethnicities right up until they marry into your family does not mean that your family isn't racist."
"The demand that your wife not be present in the nephew's life is the opening move of raising the next generation of racists."
"I'm sorry that your family hates your wife more than they love you. I'm happy that your wife's family loves you. Go where you're loved." ~ Neither-Effect-6101
"There are a whole lot of people who can take up for the people who don't look like them in the abstract, when they are talking about whole communities or population groups, but when it's right there in their house?"
"Everything changes. Their tolerance ends at their front door." ~ ThePurplestMeerkat
"For some, it's the 'I'm not a racist, but...' type of racism. I think your family may be those types."
"These kind don't want people enslaved or even necessarily openly discriminated against, but they also don't want anyone who is 'other' in their intimate spaces, like married into their family or 'tainting their bloodline'."
"They are the types that 'can't be racist cause I have a Black friend'. People of color (or from any other marginalized community) are fine in small doses, as long as they can leave them on the outside where 'those people' belong." ~ moew4974
"I started reading the comments, wondering if your wife was maybe of a different skin tone or ethnicity from your family, and hey, whaddaya know—there it is."
"Because racism has definitely turned out to be a thing in some previous AITA posts where a similar thing has happened. The whole family being completely against someone's spouse and acting like a**holes towards them when said spouse has done nothing wrong?"
"More often than not it turns out that the 'problem spouse' is a BIPOC and the a**hole family are White. You might tell yourself, 'But they're not racist...' because of the platitudes you heard growing up."
"But aren't they, though? Your brother's racist comments were the litmus test, and your family all failed."
"I'm glad you're standing up for your wife. Her family sounds awesome. Yours sounds better off being blocked. NTA." ~ Dishmastah
"Your brother could have said, 'Sorry, that was an insensitive/rude/ignorant joke' (if he thought he was 'just kidding'), but instead he does what most people do when called out for their racist jokes and microaggressions."
"He flew off the handle because HOW DARE SHE call his racist comments racist‽‽ And your family all jumped on the offended wašíču bandwagon."
"His racism tanked your wife's relationship with your family because now she's the evil witch that dared to call him racist. So even her breathing will offend them."
"As an Indigenous person, I prefer the right-wing hood wearers to the neoliberal 'some of my best friends are...' people. The first admits they're racist."
"The second does or says racist things out of ignorance, but then declares war on the messenger when their behavior gets called out. Their self-image as righteous crusader is the most important thing to them, not the people they claim to be crusading for."
"Anyway, as so many have already told you, your family warped from offended neoliberals to racist trash by keeping the vilification of your wife going to soothe their fragile egos. Why do you want those people in your life?"
"Grow a spine and send the lot of them—each one individually, including your sister—a clear message. In writing, so they can't interrupt or manipulate you."
"Lay out the timeline of their racist behavior, from brother's 'joke', their reactions to the fallout, until now, and make it clear their disgusting, disappointing, racist behavior is why you—just you, not your wife—decided you don't want to see or hear from any of them until they can recognize what they did and sincerely apologize to your wife."
"Then go no contact. Maybe your sister will make the right choice and do that. If not, she's the same as the rest of the trash."
"You have a loving, accepting new family who doesn't cause you pain. Why are you clinging to the one that does? Why do you keep rewarding them for bad behavior? Why would they change when there are no consequences?"
"As for your nephew, he's not going to know you visited until he's at least 2-3 years old. Maybe by then, some or all of your family can get their act together." ~ MohawMais
As stated in the think piece about microaggressions, But Where Are You Really From?:
"People recognize bigotry in rallies by hate groups, burning crosses, white hoods and Nazi symbolism."
"But they often fail to recognize it in their own biases."
"Because most White people see just genocide, lynchings, and other extreme acts as the definition of racism, they're appalled by any suggestion that anything they say or do is racist."
OP may be struggling to recognize his family's racism, but it was clear to outside observers.
As many have advised, it may be better to cut off ties with people who only bring conflict and unhappiness into his life.
But he needs to recognize the truth and tell them why he's not going on this trip—they're racist and he doesn't want to associate with their kind.
Rip the band-aid off, OP.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp