Secrets always find a way to be freed.
It is inevitable.
It's also incredibly frustrating when people release them before all parties involved are prepared.
Chaos and secrets, always a messy combo.
Case in point...
Redditor ConversationFar1490 wanted to discuss his story for some feedback. So naturally he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for telling my son the real reason that the relationship between his mom and uncle is strained?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (45 M[ale]) used to date my wife's (47 F[emale]) younger brother Jared (44 M) back in high school through our second year of college."
"We grew up in a rural community and it wasn't great being bi or gay back then so we dated secretly and only a few friends and his sister knew."
"We were each others first everything kiss, sex, love etc."
"Well I also happened to have feelings for her and I knew she liked me back and him wanting to be more out and me being scared to I eventually broke it off and started dating her."
"She got pregnant and we got married."
"And ever since the relationship between her and Jared has been strained with him calling me a coward and mad at her for stealing me from him."
"We still see him around town, and we don't usually talk but on holidays or events."
"But he does spend time with his nephew and they get along great."
"My son Luke (15 M) looks up to his uncle and loves spending time with him."
"But cause of what happened Jared isn't around as much as my son would like."
"Yesterday Luke finally just flat asked my why his uncle Jared didn't come around a lot more and why him and his mom always seemed mad at each other."
"I just told him the truth."
"My wife overheard us talking and she got upset and told Luke to go to his room."
"She then yelled at me asking why I would tell him that and I told her that it's not fair that he doesn't get to see his uncle much because of our drama."
"And she yells at me that it was none of his business and that he didn't need to know."
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA?:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors declared that they were kind of all over the map with the A**hole question.
It's a tricky situation.
Let's hear some thoughts...
"NTA for telling your son why the situation is the way it is."
"But YTA a major one on top why/how you dumped your bf to get together with his sister."
"Your wife is also a major TA since she is still jealous of what happened."
"You all need professional help to solve the problems you carry around for more than 20 years!!!" ~ Goddessofallnevery1
"NTA. He is part of the family, no kid anymore and deserves to know."
"Especially since I would consider that 'your' secret, because as you say being be isn't that accepted in your community."
"(Or was, I hope it's better nowadays!)"
"Anyway, since it concerned you two, you should have talked with your wife first, maybe a little AH for that."
"Info: Is your uncle outed? How is your wife's stand on homo/bisexuality?" ~ Spaghetti_Ninja_149
OP answered...
"Jared is out yes and has a husband. My wife is pretty queer positive."
Reddit continued...
"I see, then her reason to dislike him must be more complex."
"Jealousy would've been my next guess, but since Jared is married that sounds odd."
"She should get over these old resentments."
"I'm sorry for your son, now he is upset and his mom is angry." ~ Spaghetti_Ninja_149
"I mean, I don't think it reflects well on either OP or his wife that he ended up marrying his ex-boyfriend's sister so soon after dumping his ex."
"The wife probably didn't want her son to look at her differently for that."
"So her not wanting their son to know about it is an understandable reaction." ~ SilverHeart1990
"It's possible in her mind she's rationalized that she was 'second choice' because they got together right after their relationship ended."
"I mean this whole thing sounds like a dumpster fire."
"It'll be weird if they'd gotten together a couple of years after."
"But him having feelings for both of them while dating his ex and immediately jumping in bed with his sister and getting her pregnant... yikes."
"Maybe deep down she even knows any rational person would at the very least side eye both of them." ~ noblestromana
"ESH. I mean, it's sounds like a pretty less than conventional situation in the past."
"But I think we're missing some context about the way you told your son."
"You say 'I just told him the truth,' but how exactly, and how much did he already know."
"Like, if my dad came up to me at 15, and revealed he was secretly bisexual and that he'd been banging my uncle before my mum."
"I'd find that pretty messed up."
"And would have probably preferred to have not known."
"Perhaps your wife is more angry about that than the actual revelation itself." ~ marauder-shields92
"YTA. This is heavy stuff you should have discussed with your wife before deciding on your own what and how to say things."
"And your situation is unique enough that you should have planned for this long ago."
"Honestly, I'm not sure why you and your wife got together unless you thought you could work things out between the three of you."
"Or why your past relationship with the uncle means your son has a limited relationship with his uncle." ~ Zorkanian
"NAH. Everyone's just having an honest reaction to a weird situation."
"There is no 'right' here in regards to choosing to tell him or not."
"Though if there is any critique, you probably should have discussed this with your wife before telling your son." ~ chronicpainprincess
"NTA. I think it's always better for families to be open and honest with each other. Whenever possible."
"This world is changing. And for the better."
"LGBT rights are way better off now then when you were kids."
"Though there is still a long way to go."
"And these conversations help dramatically!"
"Be open and honest with your kids about these types of relationships, if you had any."
"And that there is nothing wrong with it."
"Even if you weren't comfortable being open at the time."
"That it is only you who gets to determine when and who gets to know."
"Though hopefully the stigma will go away completely!"
"I do believe that you should have talked with your wife and hatched out a plan to talk to your son."
"As this very much involves her."
"And she might feel embarrassed with her role in all of this."
"You are a team with her."
"So as a team, you need to communicate on serious issues like this."
"But should these talks occur? Yes!" ~ sbballc11
"I'm going to say ESH except for your son and ex."
"You and your wife should have prepared to discuss this one day and came at this issue as a united front."
"It's a ton for a kid to process and frankly I'm getting a headache trying to process it, and this doesn't even effect me."
"Please check in on your kid and maybe offer therapy cause that is so much to absorb."
"The kid is also 15 years old, so you two should have also tried to repair the relationship or arrange something with your ex so your son could be in his uncle's life as much as he wants to." ~ Puppin_Tea_16
"I can't say YTA for giving him that answer when he asked you a direct question."
"But I think you and your wife set yourself up for failure here by not discussing how to address the past with your son when/if he asked or whenever the situation demanded it."
"This is such a messy family situation."
"I would like a little clarification on the timeline, though: how long was it between the breakup with Jared and starting to date his sister?"
"You aren't an AH necessarily for moving from dating one sibling to dating the other."
"But that has the potential to be awkward in the best of circumstances and these don't sound like those."
"That might explain the feelings of those involved better." ~ Disastrous_Noise2833
"YTA for daring two siblings that's just super weird man."
"Not even because of the bi thing… like if they were both sisters I'd still tell you it was weird AF."
"Like i would never have dated a good friend of one of my friends I broke up with, much less their freaking family member."
"Your wife is shi**y if she knew too… and she wants to absolve herself if anything guilt or responsibility." ~ sleptlikesh*t
Well this is quite the predicament OP.
There doesn't seem to be a consensus on your course of action.
Sounds like best you can do is protect your kid from the fallout.
Family is always going to have secrets.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp