Some parents get to know their children's friends so well they begin to feel as if they are part of the family.
And as a result, they want to be there for them, just as they want to be there for their own children.
Redditor Huge_Assistance_9047 and her husband wanted to help out the best friend of one of their sons, after his family faced multiple difficulties.
But upon discovering some hostile behavior this boy directed at their other son, they stopped helping him out.
Having second thoughts as to whether or not this was the correct course of action, the original poster (OP), took to the subReddit "Am I the A**hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for not paying for camp for my son's friend?"
The OP first shared that her two sons have fairly different personalities.
"I have two sons David (16) and Shawn (14)."
"David has always been quiet, didn't have a lot of friends, and is a perfectionist."
"Shawn is more laid back, easy-going, and doesn't let anything bother him."
Upon learning that Shawn's best friend was dealt a very hard blow, the OP expressed how she and her husband decided to help him out.
"Shawn's best friend since they were little has been Frankie."
"About seven years ago, Frankie's father had a stroke."
"He was left severely disabled and Frankie's mother Beth is now the sole earner for the family."
"With summer coming up, and knowing things were tough for the family, my husband and I arranged to pay to send Frankie to the same sleep away camp that we send our sons to."
"Save for 2020 when camp did not happen we have covered Frankie's summer camp every year."
But a major development in David's life also came with a revelation regarding Frankie and his past behavior.
"David recently came out to us as gay."
"We of course accept and love our son, and he was very emotional."
"He revealed that there had been a great deal of bullying at school and Shawn and Frankie had been among the instigators."
"Frankie had asked David if we had figured out that he was a [F-Word] yet, made comments about him staring at other boys in the locker room, and told him he belonged in the girl's room."
"When I confronted Shawn, he told me it was just playing around, it wasn't serious, and it was no big deal."
"I told him that his brother took it seriously, it was a big deal, and it was unacceptable."
"I've taken away his video games until the end of the school year, and grounded him for a month."
"He has since apologized to his brother."
Frankie, however, was less willing to apologize, nor did his mother find the matter to be an issue.
"I called Beth and told her what had happened."
"She was very dismissive."
"I told her that my son's sexuality was not a punchline and out of respect for his friendship with Shawn to have Frankie leave David alone."
"Beth replied that David made himself a target by being an overly sensitive tattletale."
"I told her I didn't want to hear that Frankie had said another bad word about David."
"She said boys will be boys, they'll have to work it out, and she's not getting involved."
Beth's response wasn't good enough for the OP, who decided more serious consequences were necessary.
"The first deposit for camp was due this week and I made the decision not to sponsor Frankie."
"I called the camp office and explained that due to bullying on Frankie's part I would not be paying for camp this year."
"Beth does not know that I've been sponsoring camp since Frankie was 7 as she is only told that an anonymous donor covered camp for him."
"The only people that know are me, my husband and the camp office."
"When I told my husband what I had done, he understood why but felt badly that Frankie wouldn't get to go and Shawn would be without his best friend at camp."
"He pointed out that Beth would have likely said something if she knew we were paying for camp, but I feel like that's missing the point."
"He shouldn't act that way because it's wrong, not because we pay for camp."
"There's no way that Beth can afford camp and it's likely going to affect her job to have Frankie at home during the day."
"I feel I made the right choice to protect my son but still feel guilty."
"Am I the a**hole?"
When it was suggested the OP address the behavior with Frankie directly, they replied:
"I don't want to cross a line with him. Frankie spends a lot of time here but I am not his mother."
"I am not able to parent him but I can ban him from my house to send a very clear message that I don't appreciate his behavior."
"Right now due to Shawn being grounded, Frankie is not coming over here. Once that's over I plan to tell Shawn that Frankie is not welcome here after what he did to David."
"I do agree that much of his behavior is the result of his home situation and stress of his father's illness."
"Frankie has not apologized and that's fine. I don't want him to apologize if he's not sorry for what he did. I just want him to leave my son alone. His mother wouldn't even agree to that."
"The difference with my younger son is that I made sure he knew this was unacceptable. For his part, Shawn has shown remorse, recognizes how much he hurt his brother, and has demonstrated how sorry he is."
"While I can't discipline Frankie, I do have the right to control if he's in my house, and if I pay for him to be around my kids for summer camp."
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community agreed the OP was not the a**hole for rescinding her camp sponsorship.
Just about everyone commended the OP for sticking up for her son.
Beth's dismissive behavior only further warranted the decision to stop paying for Frankie to go to camp.
"NTA."
"I think you have to put your son first - can you imagine how he would feel if he found out you continued to sponsor his bully to go to camp after you found out what he was doing?"
"And do you really want this kid to go to camp with your son?"
"His mother sounds as horrible as he is, I think it's time to cut the free ride off."- Affectionate_Ice_658.
"NTA."
"Hell no!"
"Frankie is a bully and his mother is enabling him by 'not getting involved'."
"It is not 'boys being boys'."
"He needs to be taught to treat others with respect and tolerance."
"You have gone above and beyond for Frankie and are not required to enable your son's bully by continuing to pay for summer camp for him."
"His being at home for the summer is his mother's problem, not yours."- Ducky818.
"NTA."
"Beth needs to get involved."
"Bullying is not 'boys will be boys'."
"Aside from that, you have no obligation to sponsor a bully at a summer camp."
"For all you know, he's been bullying people there since he was seven and this year, some kid will get to enjoy camp without being bullied."
"Let Frankie meet Karma."-DarkAthena.
"First, you have been so sweet to keep that donation private."
"People who quietly donate without fanfare are my heroes."
"And no, NTA for not wanting to do this because he is helping to bully your gay son."
"Thanks so much for being a great Mom."
"Wonderful parents seem to be too few and far in between."
"David is so lucky to have you."- SimplySam4210.
"NTA."
"But after what Shawn put his brother through, I wouldn't be sending him either."- Janetaz18.
"NTA - and frankly it sounds like Frankie is egging on Shawn."
"Perhaps a summer without Frankie will do Shawn some good."- jadekiara.
"NTA."
"She made her bed by dismissing you when you called to talk to her about it as adults."
"She could have apologized and taught her son to be better."
"Instead she blamed your son, the victim of homophobic bullying."
"You were super classy to anonymously sponsor him all these years."
"You don't need to keep doing it after this."- throwawaydate9876.
"NTA."
"As other poster's have mentioned, it would be so beyond hurtful to David if he found out that he told you about Frankie's bullying, he doesn't get an apology or stop to the bullying and y'all were still paying for the kid's camp?"
"You would actually be facilitating his bully's access to him! "
"You are choosing to support your son instead of literally setting him up to be further harassed."-RideTheWindForever.
"NTA."
"Why on earth should you continue to pay?"
"Because he's such a nice boy?"
"Frankie's an AH."
"It's no tragedy that he doesn't get to go off to camp and enjoy being an AH some more."
"His mom's an AH too."-Ok_Year5200.
"NTA and maybe some time apart would do Shawn and Frankie some good."
"Obviously when they get together they make some poor choices and based on his mom's attitude I doubt Frankie's behavior will improve."-SG131.
"NTA."
"You're not obligated to support anyone's camp fees."
"Your kids are older and can make other friends - seems like maybe your son & Frankie are a toxic mix?"
"Also, what Beth does to manage Frankie's time during the summer isn't your concern."
"Besides, he's 14… he can't handle himself during the day?"
"Most kids just play video games or, shocker, help around the house."
"You were right to stand your ground and defend your kid."
"Her dismissive remarks are equally unacceptable."- geedunkgeek.
"NTA."
"Frankie has known your sons for a long time (from Frankie's perspective)."
"He is old enough to be able to understand that calling your son that's not his BFF slurs and the other things he's been saying are not ok."
"And you're not obligated to pay for him to go to camp."
"Beth should care about her son saying hateful things."
"Her caring should not rely on someone else paying for an activity for her son to do in the summer."
"Frankie's 14, she can figure out how to deal with him being home all day in the summer."-CemeteryDweller7719.
It's almost sad to think that not being able to go to summer camp will be what it takes for Frankie to reflect on his actions.
But maybe if Frankie and Beth do eventually learn the OP and her family were responsible for sending him there, they might not take the importance of kindness for granted ever again.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp