Content Warning: Biased and Exclusive Religious Lessons, Religious Beliefs
An important decision every parent will have to make is the type of education they wish for their children to receive. From the school system to extracurricular offerings to their level of involvement in the school system, there are a lot of variables for parents to consider.
Even with the most astute research before making a decision, surprises might still arise in the school, especially when substitute teachers and school visitors are present, pointed out the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor Mason110417 was uncomfortable when their daughter came home from school and shared all she had learned about Christmas and the Christian faith, despite her family being Jewish.
Though they weren't specifically against their daughter learning this information, the Original Poster (OP) didn't like the thought of the faith being preached as a better option than their own.
They asked the sub:
"Am I overreacting for being upset that my child's first-grade substitute teacher taught the class about Jesus?"
The OP was concerned when their daughter came home and shared what she learned at school one day.
"I am Jewish, but not practicing, and my wife is not religious at all."
"My first grader came home from school on Monday and said she learned about Christmas, and her substitute also taught her about Jesus, that Jesus is the reason for Christmas, and that Christianity was THE truth."
"The actual lesson was about holidays around the world. While we, of course, want to expose our child to all religions, we did not think bringing Jesus into the topic was appropriate."
When they heard from the principal, they did not feel better.
"My wife emailed the principal and requested in the future that there be training or guidelines for substitute teachers about what is appropriate to talk about."
"The principal emailed back with a copy of the lesson (which had no mention of religion or Jesus) and said the substitute followed the lesson, and if we didn't like it, we can opt our child out of future lessons about religions and world cultures."
"I thought this was an inappropriate reply."
The OP continued to feel perplexed by the situation days later.
"I am aware Jesus is part of the history of why Christmas is celebrated and have zero problem with that being taught. But when it is presented as the one real religion, that's where I start to have an issue."
"To clarify, nobody freaked out, and nobody thought anyone should get fired. Religion is extremely nuanced, especially for six-year-olds relaying information to their parents."
"In all honesty, I was more annoyed by the principal's dismissiveness of the situation."
"Anyway, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, and I hope everyone has a safe holiday season."
"AIO?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NOR: Not Overrating
- YOR: You're Overreacting
Some pointed out that this was a solid example of a problematic substitute teacher.
"As a teacher who has taught holidays around the world, there is a right and wrong way to teach this unit. I'm sure the same principal would be unhappy if Ramadan were taught in a certain way, too."
"My guess is that the substitute decided to wing it since they already knew what Christmas was, and that they didn't follow the lesson."
"I'm so sorry this happened! It's generally best practice not to mention specific figures, but rather to focus on the traditions and customs practiced by those who celebrate them. The theology is not interesting to six-year-olds anyway, and the standard being taught is that different people have different traditions." - blondeoftheguild
"I think you should phone the principal and explain that their lesson plan is great, but that the sub didn't follow the lesson plan. Explain that your child said, in addition to the lesson plan, the sub taught them about Jesus."
"Ask if they talked to the substitute teacher. If they say yes, and the sub said they followed the plan and didn't discuss Jesus, then tell them your kid must've heard about this on the playground. Thank them, and hang up."
"Either that's what happened (the playground talk), or the substitute knows what they did was wrong, so lied about it. They probably won't risk it again, or if they do, they'll definitely be caught next time. At any rate, the school is doing what it can, and that's all they can do." - ElectricalTwist3385
"NOR. I am an atheist, and we are raising our children nonreligious (we intend to teach them about all the different religions people believe, why we don't, and that they are able to explore this as they grow and make their own choices)."
"I would be upset if any religion were taught as the 'truth' in school. All of my family is religious, and we have said, of course, they can talk about it, but they cannot 'teach' it while babysitting, etc."
"There is a strong difference between explaining why something exists and teaching it as a truth." - Moliterno38
"NOR. I believe your point wasn't that the lesson plan was unacceptable, but that the teacher did not follow the plan. The principal's response was poor. Hopefully, it did raise their consciousness about it for future units on the subject."
"In my kids' elementary class, Bibles were handed out. There was a big huhu when she refused to accept one. She and the one Jewish kid bonded over it."
"You can bet I was on the phone the next morning. I believe the school no longer does this. They're also now wise to no hymns during school concerts, but that was someone else's doing." - Holiday_Trainer_2657
"Principals don't really have much power over any particular substitute. Substitutes are not usually anywhere near well-trained to be respectful and mindful of others. Further, they don't have to maintain relationships with the community the way that real teachers do."
"This is a polite way of saying, you get some weirdo substitute teachers."
"As for the principal's response, what can she do? She can offer you a way to avoid this type of incident, but she can't really undo that the weirdo sub was preaching. Also, even if it's her plan to burn the sub professionally, it wouldn't be appropriate to share that with you."
"As for you, I get you. If I had a dollar for every time Christianity was the default mindset in December. Oi. NOR, but what can you do? Maybe file a complaint with substitute services?" - Chemical-Captain4240
Others were infuriated by the idea of this lesson taking place.
"The way I'd be meeting with that school and sub and making this a f**king problem. NOR."
"Don't let this go. Get that sub fired if you can. Like you say, no one should get fired, but this sub is clearly using their position of authority to try to brainwash kids into a religion without their parents' permission. In my opinion, that's f**king assault." - TellProud6400
"As a Christian, involved in my church, faith is very important to me, etc… I would be perturbed about this and wonder if I should complain."
"If any teacher can preach Christ, then any teacher can preach anything, and school is not the place for it."
"Even if I could make sure that schools were only preaching Christianity, there's so much bad information and wrong and destructive theology out there, I would turn that down."
"Even if I could make sure that schools were, in good faith, teaching exactly my version of Christianity, I'm fair-minded enough not to want my faith shoved down others' throats."
"Make a stink, school is no place for it." - Famous-Example-8332
"Well, Jesus is not the reason the schools and businesses close down for this holiday. We are not a nation of Christians, although Christianity is prevalent, and there should be nothing extra to explain or promote it in public schools. Is your child's school public? Because if not, it might not have been against the rules." - Deduce-Produce-5391
"NOR. As an atheist, I would RIOT if a teacher did this in my kid's class. I want my kids exposed to a multitude of religious viewpoints, but never in a public school and never from a stranger."
"It was extremely inappropriate of that substitute teacher to even mention Jesus in the class; to kids, teachers are supposed to give accurate information… if the teacher lies/exposes their own bias/indoctrinates the children, that's sending a message to the kids that what the teacher is saying is true."
"No one should control their kid's religious journey except for their parents." - Delicious-Valuable96
"I'd be so mad. Nor. As a matter of fact, I'd tell them that you're getting a lawyer. That sub needs to be permanently fired."
"Edited to add that I am a non-practicing Jew, and have raised my sons in the culture, minus the religion/God aspect. And I would be absolutely livid!"
"I literally banned my mil from my house for the same reason." - bountiful_garden
"Wow, OP, when reading again what the principal said, I would go over his or her head and talk to someone else. But this doesn't sound like a public school, so not sure you can do anything about it."
"We have some experience with this, I would be glad to relate to you, but it only applies if the school is public. We got lots of help and cooperation from the school." - Funny-Horror-3930
The subReddit understood the OP's concerns and pointed out that exploring beliefs and holiday practices around the world would be lovely and beneficial for all students, as long as one "option" was not given preference and treated as the "right" route to take.
Perhaps the OP's child misunderstood what the substitute teacher said, or perhaps the substitute teacher misspoke, but either way, it sounded like an issue had come up in the classroom in which students might have felt guided toward Christianity and Christmas, which could have terrible implications for many families.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp