Grief is a neverending process.
This pain is especially difficult when it comes to tragedy.
When life is extinguished too soon, the pain seems to hit differently.
And many loved ones need reminders to cope.
But those reminders don't always help everybody.
Case in point...
Redditor merk35802 wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback. So naturally, they came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
They asked:
"WIBTA for asking a family to remove their child's death memorial from my property?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I recently purchased a home on a country road."
"Five years ago some drunk local teenagers wrapped their car around a tree on the property and one died."
"Their family created a roadside memorial with a 4-foot cross and wooden sign."
"People come a few times a year and place flowers, notes, etc."
"The memorial is on my property in front of the tree they hit, about 10 feet from the road."
"I don't want to see this memorial every day."
"It's depressing and reminds me that a tragedy happened here, which I don't need."
"I'm trying to get over some stuff."
"I want this home to be a fresh, clean start."
"But I'm also sensitive to the kid's family and friends' feelings."
The OP was left to wonder:
"WIBTA if I asked the family to take down the memorial?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Plant a hedge around it between it and your house so you don't have to look at it. NTA."
"It would mess with my head too."
"You'll feel terrible if you pull it down though." ~ northerntropicaz
"Instead of a hedge, let them know how you feel about it."
"Ask if they'd be willing to help you plant a lilac, peony, or some other flowering bush in its place."
"This will help everyone to be able to see something beautiful every day instead of the sadness." ~ Ok-Recognition9876
"Sounds like it's not on the easement, it's on OP's actual property."
"Is there any way it could be moved to the easement?"
"I think if there's a history of allowing public use you can actually lose that land in court and have it declared public property."
"I'm vaguely remembering other people's problems and not every jurisdiction is the same."
"Still, worth double checking." ~ mitsuhachi
"That's a fantastic idea and I am glad you like it."
"I totally get how distressing it must be for you, and while you have the right to decide what goes on your property, five years may still feel way too soon for the relatives and friends."
"If you can find a way to let the memorial stay and even provide some privacy for everyone, I am sure such a compassionate move will be much appreciated." ~ AngelMillionaire1142
"There are plenty of times spontaneous memorials spring up."
"At the location of the death."
"At the school or workplace of someone who died."
"At an otherwise special location."
"But those are all supposed to be temporary."
"Those are for the immediate mourning and needs of the people in the aftermath of a tragedy."
"From there... that's why we have burial sites, or urns to put in your house, or places to scatter ashes, or whatever."
"This sounds awful maybe, but why does one tragic death get a public, permanent memorial like that, when the kid who dies of cancer at age 5 doesn't get one?"
"Or the teenager who died in a crash but doesn't get that roadside memorial set up?"
"Why do we need to treat just a few deaths as special enough to have a permanent reminder to us all, even on someone else's private land?" ~ BigMax
"I don't think the parents are thinking beyond their own loss."
"I had a relative who died in a crash, and my entire family could point to the exact spot they passed, sans memorial."
"Many of us can, even though we weren't born at the time."
"I always think of them when I pass that spot."
"Memories can be kept alive in many ways, not just visually." ~ Profreadsalot
"There are compelling reasons to remove this memorial."
"What you have on your property likely constitutes 'an attractive nuisance'; that is, something unprotected that may induce others to come onto your property."
"Unfenced swimming pools or jungle gyms are examples."
"As a real estate owner, you are liable for anyone who is hurt or injured on your property."
"This is more grievous if you have..."
"A) something that encourages trespassing..."
"B) you have knowingly tolerated the trespass for a period of time; and..."
"C) you have done nothing to actively discourage the trespassing such as removing the attraction, fencing off the memorial, and posting No Trespassing/Private Property signage."
"You also may be creating a right of access to others."
"Your property insurer may want to dramatically increase your rates or drop you entirely because of risk."
"Even if you can keep your coverage, it may not be enough if a single lawsuit goes against you."
"You could lose the property and become bankrupt if insurance isn't sufficient enough for a very large judgment."
"We've seen this not infrequently in legal forums."
"Guess what the first thing the new owners do?"
"Remove the liability."
"You are likely reducing the market value of your real estate and endangering your own financial stability."
"You can contact a lawyer if you truly want to carve out that property and donate it to the city."
"But any decent lawyer is likely to advise you to remove the memorial as soon as possible."
"Put up the No Tresspass/Private Property signs."
"Cover the memorial with a tarp."
"Perhaps you can contact the families to tell them the memorial is being removed for legal reasons (in case they want to come get it) but don't let this drag out."
"Let your tree go back to being a tree."
"Let your grass go back to being the carpet for your feet."
"Let your property become your home, sanctuary, and safe place for healing."
"Good luck, OP." ~ Avlonnic2
"A 4-foot cross is ridiculous."
"How has it been allowed?"
"Is it on your land or public property?"
"The thing is if you put a complaint to the relevant authorities they would assume it is you and that would be worse."
"Your NTA but how the hell to handle this one is mind-boggling."
"You're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't."
"A hedge or fence that blocks it is a good idea."
"But the family are out with the size of that cross."
"Usually people just leave flowers at places like this."
"Personally, I'd rather go to their grave than where they died in a horrible way." ~ cakesforever
"This was going to be my suggestion too."
"Some kind of barrier between the house and the memorial, even a solid fence."
"The memorial will, eventually, go untended and forgotten."
"At which point you could quietly remove or relocate it."
"I mean a little stone or something sounds OK, a four-foot cross is a bit much." ~ asdrunkasdrunkcanbe
"That's not always the case."
"I've seen a memorial that's been taken care of for over 10 years now."
"OP, first and foremost I wish you all the best on your new start of life."
"Praying for this change to help you."
"And secondly, I agree with everyone saying to put a hedge to block it."
"Just make sure to keep it maintained so it doesn't ruin the memorial for this family." ~ WhiteSheDevil81
"NAH, have a conversation with the family."
"Maybe offer to make a little flowerbed at the foot of the tree where these folks can come leave flowers, but that isn't a glaring 4-foot cross that turns your private home into a public graveyard."
"I do think it's weird, especially as time goes on, to keep focusing on the spot the kid died, instead of celebrating a place that was significant to him while he was alive." ~ Cartographer0108
"Can you contact the family?"
"Tell them you're kindly and respectfully giving them advance notice that you're planning on fencing your property, after which point, they won't have access."
"So they should consider where they'll want to move the memorial."
"And if they ask explain that your lawyer has advised that people should not have access over, around, or through your fence."
"After it's moved, well, if there's a delay in the actual fencing, that's not their business."
"Best of luck." ~ awgeezwhatnow
"Yeah, it's awkward for sure, but NTA."
"It's your home and your property, and if you're uncomfortable with it then that overrules the feelings of anyone else here."
"They can leave notes and flowers at his grave, doesn't need to be the location of this death."
"Cemeteries serve the same purpose they are trying to use your property for." ~ BulbasaurRanch
"I will say, that not everyone has a grave."
"My brother doesn't, he was cremated."
"But there are other ways to memorialize someone that's not a giant cross on someone's property."
"But I've also never been to the site of his accident, and I didn't ever want to."
"I guess I'm just saying your NTA, but a little patience and empathy while you navigate this with them will go a long way." ~ SnakesCatsAndDogs
"NTA. Honestly, you might check your local laws because several places have outlawed those kinds of memorials since they make more hazards if another wreck happens there."
"In other places, they're only legal if the local district gave approval."
"At any rate, it's your property, therefore it's private property and they can't just come by and put things on the property without permission." ~ Silaquix
"NAH. I saw someone propose a flower bed instead, you can also propose a bush, a tree… something significant for the kid or his family but that represents life and not death."
"As a mother, I cannot imagine seeing my child die, even less surviving her if it happened, so I think you should talk to them and be a bit patient."
"I totally agree that the big cross is morbid and disturbing for you." ~ TwinZylander214
Well, OP, Reddit is with you.
It's a sad, tragic situation. But it's your property, and you get to choose what's on it.
There are several options you have. Hopefully, one of them can work.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp