It's becoming increasingly well-known that pregnancy takes a great toll on a person's body.
But society still tends to pressure women to look as if they've never carried a baby, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
When his wife was commenting about her own body not going back to normal, Redditor RonchIRode gave advice to her that he thought was helpful.
But when her feelings were hurt, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if he had said the wrong thing.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for pointing out my wife's baby weight?"
The OP wife had different experiences with her two pregnancies.
"I (32 Male) have been married to my wife (31 Female) for nine years. We have a seven-year-old son together and two-year-old twins."
"With our son, my wife lost her weight pretty fast, and she didn't gain much to even start out with."
The OP noticed his wife's post-pregnancy healing looked different, too.
"My wife has always been pretty petite. Before our twins, she was probably 120-125 pounds. She is now 180."
"She has shown no attempt to lose weight and no longer goes to the gym. She use to always be in the gym, four days a week."
The OP's wife did not respond well to something he thought was helpful.
"The other night, she was complaining her new jeans no longer fit, and I pointed out that she still has her baby weight."
"She got really upset and said I basically called her unattractive."
"That is not the case at all, I find my wife beautiful, but she keeps sizing up in her jeans and then acts confused about why."
"We're very open with each other, so I didn't think she'd take it so offensively. I told her I thought she was beautiful, and that wasn't supposed to be an insult, just that she hasn't lost it yet."
"She then got defensive and said she carried two babies in her body, and what did I expect?"
"She slept as far to the wall as she could get and had an attitude with me for the rest of the night. We are open about things, and I never meant for it to be taken so negatively or to insult her."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some were furious with the OP for being so insensitive to his wife's feelings.
"I had one (ONE) uterine cramp getting fitted for an IUD, and in that moment was the clarity of one infinitesimally small part of a pregnancy and birth experience."
"Babies build bones, and do you know how? By LEECHING CALCIUM FROM THEIR MOTHER'S BONES. Metal. Your wife's body had twins in it."
"Her bones had to move around and reorganize. Her organs had to shift to make room. Her lungs and heart, and bladder had to work under increased pressure. She had to go through labor and then deliver two whole babies and the associated bits and bobs."
"If that were my wife… bro, I would never ask her to do anything ever again. Split your abdominal muscles in half and then decide if you feel like going to the gym ever again."
"Then get on Google and ask what you can do to support a partner who wants to get back in shape. You can meal prep. You can offer to take something off her hands or get her sessions to something fun and fitness-adjacent, so she feels good. That way, she knows you want her to feel good, so she feels good, not so that you can pass judgment on her appearance."
"Not the most egregious, more of a dumb, but YTA." - Klay-Annimation
"It wasn't an unsolicited opinion at all. OP was just too dumb to realize she was looking for support and not to be told the truth. He did the same as if a woman said to a man, 'Your d**k is perfect. The big ones hurt.'" - DaveRN1
"She didn't ask for OP's input on her dress size, and she didn't invite his opinions on it either."
"When your spouse is vulnerable, and in need of your support, that is a very different scenario to them specifically asking you to weigh in on something. He wasn't asked for his opinion, nor was it a welcome part of the discourse. His support could have been given in a myriad of ways, including non-verbally."
"Your analogy is the complete opposite of what he said. He didn't lead with a compliment. He led with the negative commentary on her physical appearance and only added that he thought she was beautiful once the damage was done and she was visibly upset." - ellenripleysanicon
"Pregnancy is so hard on the body, and men like OP don't get it."
"OP, pregnancy is hard enough on a woman's body, but carrying multiples takes it to a whole other level. There's a reason twins and multiple births tend to be the exception and not the norm. It's the same reason twins are way more likely to be born prematurely; women's bodies only have so much room for a baby."
"Put that together with the fact your wife is perpetually exhausted all the time because she's now outnumbered by the kids, and it should be pretty obvious why her body is having a harder time bouncing back."
"Her body has done more amazing things than yours ever will. Therefore, have no right to comment on her weight. Go apologize and never, ever comment on her body again unless it's in appreciation for what a badass your wife is."
"Hard YTA." - Gizzycav
"YTA."
"Three kids."
"When exactly is she supposed to get to the gym? When was the last time she was even able to go to the bathroom alone? Or take a bubble bath? Go for a walk alone or drink a glass of wine without needing to deal with kids?"
"I'm not even going to ask how much parental responsibilities you shoulder, so she has downtime."
"Your 'honesty' sounds like judgment. Go apologize." - Short-Classroom2559
But others didn't think the OP was insulting his wife.
"OP hasn't complained about his wife's weight or the fact that she doesn't go to the gym. All he did was state facts, and he admitted that he still finds his wife beautiful."
"All he said is that the reason she doesn't fit in her jeans is because of her baby weight, which is TRUE. How the f**k is saying the truth fat shaming or misogynistic? NTA." - stevenhau2
"NTA. Unless you make other comments about her weight that aren't written in your post, you merely stated why she didn't fit in her jeans anymore, not egging her on to lose weight."
"60 pounds is a lot of 'extra' weight if one is used to being a mere 120-125. Having children is tough and exhausting, but there's no need to be in denial about a 50% weight increase." - palegate
"NTA. You weren't criticizing her, just stating a fact." - ybflao
"NTA. She still has baby weight, that's a fact. You pointing out that objective fact holds no judgment. If she gets upset about you pointing out objective facts, then it only means that she herself is not satisfied with her body."
"All the people in the comments yammering on about the gym; you don't need to go to the gym to lose weight, all you need to do is make sure your caloric expenditure is higher than your caloric intake ie: just eat less." - Snow2D
"Your context and framing are probably gonna get you a lot of YTA votes, but to be honest, I vote NTA. Not the smartest thing to say anything there, and you should have just let her vent, given the reaction, but it sounds like you just need to talk to her at a different time and see if there is anything further you can do to help her have more free time if you aren't doing that already." - DSmooth425
Some argued that neither the OP nor his wife was in the wrong.
"NAH."
"You told her the facts and accidentally hit a vulnerable point."
"In my opinion, most of the YTA posts have never been in a long-term relationship."
"Unfortunately, being honest is the only sustainable way to keep a relationship working and healthy."
"This also includes uncomfortable topics and can quickly lead to hurt feelings on either side."
"The good thing is, now you know how much your wife suffers under this."
"How you take it from here decides if your an A H or not." - chrisderBe
"This is one of those no-win situations. And she started it, so if he's TA, so is she. What kind of answer did she expect, really now?"
"(Personally, I voted NAH because I can understand her being insecure and tired after three kids, so it might have just been a bad moment.)" - Anteatereatingant
"NAH."
"And I am a mom of five."
"She was upset about the weight. He assured her he loved her baby weight and all."
"They need to work together to figure out how they can balance life and help her get her confidence back if that's what she wants. If not, then she needs to accept the fact she has gained baby weight and not be so upset about it and embrace it." - jadeness007
The subReddit could understand how a husband might want to help his wife by being honest, but they also agreed that there's a time and a place for everything. Though he may have been trying to help, he could have phrased it differently, and he could have waited for his wife to ask for feedback.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp