Blood doesn't always mean family.
And sometimes family isn't forever.
Family members can often inflict the most pain.
Case in point...
Redditor thegoldenstitch wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for forbidding my sister to meet my child and telling my wife to butt out of the situation?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"So the judgment is pretty much exactly as the title suggests."
"I will provide context though."
"So I (28 M[ale]) have been married to my wife for 4 years, and we have a 2 year old son together."
"My older sister Ariel has 2 kids with her husband."
"She is my only sibling, but we do not speak and haven't since my wedding 4 years ago."
"My wife knew I had no relationship with my sister or mother whenever we got together, but now it's causing an argument."
"We were a pretty typical family until my mom cheated my senior year of high school with a coworker."
"My dad moved out immediately, and I moved with him."
"This caused the riff between me and my sister."
"My sister believed since my mom was sorry and it was a one-time thing (as she claimed which I don't for a second believe) and was trying to reconcile through the church that me and my dad's refusal to speak with her was somehow wrong."
"I was 18, and my sister was 20."
"Long story but eventually my sister stopped speaking with my dad."
"I haven't seen my mom since 2016, and we have only spoken once since 2019 when she tried to invite herself to my wedding."
"She was not invited, but my sister was out of courtesy."
"My sister didn't show up, and we have not spoken since."
"My wife knew when she married me that my only family was my dad and my cousins."
"She said it was okay and she didn't care."
"So a few months ago my wife got a call from my sister's husband (I've never met him) and he said that he wanted to start mending the bridge and would like to have me come to meet their kids."
"I said no."
"Well then my sister started sending pics of her kids to my wife and my wife sent pictures back."
"I told her multiple times I did not like this and she told me she could send pics to whoever she wants."
"I said that if she keeps testing my boundaries, she will be a single parent really soon."
"That she signed up for me as is."
"My wife is saying it's wrong to deprive my son of his family."
"I said I don't even have a relationship with my sister or B[rother] I[n] Law], so why should my kid?"
"That doesn't make me feel comfortable at all, and I don't even know these people."
"Also any pic she sends could easily be forwarded to my mom, and she needed to think about that."
"She said she doesn't even understand why my mom can't meet her kid and that comment alone pissed me off because I've explained my family drama for years and it feels like she just ignored it."
"I said she really needs to think about who she wants to appease because I'm not gonna stand for disrespect of my boundaries."
"My dad totally agrees with me and is telling me I should start setting aside money now for an exit strategy."
"Because my wife's behavior is exactly how my mom used to act and I should see the warning signs now."
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA - This was all clearly defined at the beginning of your relationship."
"Why does she even care?"
"Follow your dad's advice."
"The only concern if you were to break up over this is custody."
"On her time she could very well take your child to meet your mother, and there is zero you could do about it." ~ why-everything-meh
"If it was wife's sister and mother, she has a better argument to go against the wishes of OP, but it isn't her side of the family."
"OP is the primary decider on how his half of the family is dealt with. NTA." ~ shadyside7979
"He's not getting a restraining order against his sister over this, and it would be an abuse of the system to try honestly."
"The whole situation is tragic because both OP and his Sister should have gotten therapy before having such extreme over-reactions to adultery that occurred in someone else's relationship when they were adults."
"And OP's dad clearly needs counseling as well because his comments about how this means OP will be cheated on are immature and ridiculous."
"All three of them need to grow up."
"However, the wife clearly does not respect OP's boundaries or care very much about his feelings, so he probably should be rethinking the relationship."
"What a mess." ~ Professional-Soil621
"I agree with this take."
"This whole situation has pretty much nothing to do with OP and his sister, but it seems like their parents love dragging them into their messes."
"The father shouldn't be getting involved now, but of course, he is and is exacerbating the situation by saying OP should get a divorce!"
"OP could really benefit from some therapy where he gets to break down the dynamics in his family."
"But, his wife should be encouraging this type of response (i.e. therapy) instead of undermining her husband." ~ Classroom_Visual
"People who grew up with healthy families just CANNOT grasp that there can be valid reasons to cut someone off."
"I've been married 25+ years, and my husband has WITNESSED the crap that these people pull, but there are still moments where he falls into happy family fantasy land."
"My only (civil) response is, 'Are you new here?' NTA." ~ Automatic_Value7555
"Evidently the only relationships they 'nuked' was mom and sis."
"Still good with dad and the cousins."
"And frankly, Mom's dishonesty and the sheer indifference she had to how her affair would affect her children (even if she didn't give a sh*t about the husband/father of the children) would be enough for me to go N[o] C[ontact]."
"And the sister? 'Oh, cheating isn't that bad. And she said sorry...'"
"Yeah, no. Don't need that in my life and evidently, OP doesn't either. NTA." ~ PuddyTatTat
"I agree with you in questioning if this actually is a reason to cut someone off, especially the sister."
"My family is not perfect, but personally this would not be enough for me to go NC forever with a parent and a sibling."
"However it's OP's choice, and I think their spouse needs to respect that, even if she disagrees."
"Disregarding OP's boundaries is going to cause major issues in their own marriage and family." ~ Jerseygirl2468
"NTA. Your mother broke your family the moment she decided to cheat, and you are in your right to go NC with her."
"If your sister didn't attend your wedding you are in your right to go NC with her."
"Your wife is disrespecting you, you were very clear, your family is your dad and cousins, she doesn't have the right to connect with a part of the family that hurt you and you decided to go NC."
"If this was the other way around, your father cheating with your mom and you going NC there will be lots more of NTA." ~ Dangi86
"I agree with OP is NTA, but I think he needs to show his wife how much her actions are detrimental to their marriage."
"It seems she is on a crusade that uniting families will be a just cause op issue are trivial."
"Most probably the contact has been longer than B[rother] i[n] L[aw] contacting the OP."
"Also I am also pretty sure mother is in the pic already."
"I don't think wife believes this is as serious as OP thinks and they need to sit down and have a clear talk."
"This will get ugly pretty soon."
"What will OP do if the wife says after a divorce that she will keep kids in touch with mother and sister?
"I think OP will drag her a** to a marriage counselor that will show her how serious this matter is to you."
"And how do plan your exit if this can go south very fast?" ~ umartanwir
"ESH."
"1. Your mom for cheating."
"2. You and your sister for taking sides and letting hate and anger control your lives."
"3. Your dad, understandable he was bitter in the beginning, but so angry and manipulative that he has allowed his bitterness to manifest over the years."
"Your wife and BIL for going behind everyone's back, they should know you can't fix stupid, but I'll give them kudos for, at least trying something."
"Are you guys junior high school students?"
"All the adults in this scenario suck and are acting childish and immature."
"You all sound unhappy and miserable."
"Your 'kid' is BIL child's 1st cousin."
"Stop this depressing behavior before you all regret it in the future."
"Grow the hell up!" ~ Aggravating-Film-221
"NTA, and your wife's refusal to respect your boundaries is definitely very concerning."
"It goes without saying that there are some major issues that you two are not handling between you."
"I don't know your exact situation, but I would recommend finding a decent couples counselor to have a third party to help with an actual conversation."
"It might not go well for the marriage, but the marriage isn't going well now." ~ JsCTmav
Well OP, this is quite the situation.
But Reddit seems to understand you, for the most part.
It sounds like a big family talk, and some serious therapy may be of help to you.
The past can have an extreme hold if you let it.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp