Every now and again, we've all found ourselves enjoying a meal that gets unhappily disrupted by one person's remark.
No two people have exactly the same idea of how to handle what they've just heard.
Some choose to sit in silence and avoid conflict, while others can't be silent and waste no time in confronting this individual.
Then there are those who feel the only thing to do is to get up and leave.
Redditor throwra_ILsdinner was enjoying dinner with her in-laws (ILs) when her father-in-law (FIL) made a surprising, and less-than-welcome observation about her and her husband.
While the original poster (OP) felt inclined to get up and compose herself in the restroom, her husband felt they needed to go a few steps further and leave altogether.
A decision that did not please the OP's ILs one bit, who demanded an apology.
Having second thoughts about her behavior, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for leaving the table after what my FIL's said?"
The OP explained why her FIL's remarks made her want to leave the room, and her husband want to leave his parent's house altogether.
"My (26 F[emale]) husband (29 M[ale]) and I were invited at my ILs for dinner yesterday."
"Everything's was going great until my mother-in-law [MIL] brought up my husband's 'player' phase in high school."
"My MIL was just jokingly being like 'Honestly, him in High school, I'd never thought he'd actually settle down with somebody' and my FIL was like 'Yeah, even less with someone like you'."
"I asked him what he meant by that."
Both my MIL and husband were then like "Please, no" in a "oh he's gonna f**k up" way.
My FIL said "Well you weren't exactly his type in high school, you know?". My husband tried to make him stop after that, but my FIL added, "Not saying you weren't pretty enough or anything like that, you just wouldn't have caught his eyes"
"I got up the table and went to the bathroom."
"I was not even in there for 5 minutes that my husband knocked and told me we were leaving."
"Once we were home, my husband received a text from his mom saying that my reaction was childish and disrespectful and that we wouldn't be invited again until I apologized."
"My husband replied that I'd only apologize if my FIL apologized first."
"He didn't got an answer, but his sister texted me that I needed to apologize ASAP because I was putting my husband's relationship with his parents at risk over a misunderstanding."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
The Reddit community unanimously believed that neither the OP nor her husband were the a**holes for leaving the OP's IL's house.
Everyone agreed that there was no misunderstanding in the OP's FIL's remarks being offensive and misogynistic, and he, not the OP nor her husband, was the one who owed an apology. Others pointed out the IL's demands were all the more ridiculous as they were blaming her for her husband's decision.
"NTA."
"First off, your husband is a keeper."
"I'm happy that he stood by your side."
"As for apologizing, why should you apologize when you're the one who was insulted?"
"Your FIL should have kept his mouth shut."
"Do not apologize for anything."
"Your FIL should apologize to you since he was the one who decided to be an a**."-Yellow_Submarine8891
"Pops put his foot in his mouth past his kneecap, now MIL wants you to apologize for Pops jerk a** statement to make everything nice again."
"NTA."- MojotheCat13
"NTA."
"There was no misunderstanding."
"I guess you'll just have to find a way to make it through life without invites from your in-laws."- Top-Necessary5003
"WHAT 'MISUNDERSTANDING'???"
"The only reason your husband's relationship with his parents is in jeopardy is because his father is obnoxious."
"You owe no one an apology."
"You didn't even ask to leave. You just removed yourself from the table."
"Your husband (rightfully) took care of everything with his parents and took you home."
"I suppose you could say you are sorry that you were unable to hide how hurtful FIL's offensive, insensitive, insulting remarks were."
"Personally, I admire your restraint!"
"NTA!"- uTop-Artichoke5020
"You have a wonderful husband."
"He's a keeper."
"The rest of his family…not so much."
"NTA."- Wild-Pie-7041
"NTA."
"Ah, the time-tested way of calling out AHs: just ask them to explain what they meant."
"Good for you for standing up for yourself."- floccinaucinihilist
"NTA."
"He said something inappropriate."
"Then he made it worse."
"Everyone was telling him to stop, and he kept going."
"The only person ruining a relationship is your FIL for being shallow and your MIL for backing him even though she knew he was wrong before he even said it."- Natural_Garbage7674
"My 2 cents:"
"Tell your husband that it is okay. He had a slutty phase in school and that he got loads of dates with conventionally attractive women."
"Tell him you really appreciate him standing up for you."
"Tell him that you will not see his father until the father publicly apologizes for physically comparing you to hubby's past lovers."
"Tell your husband you love him."- eclectic-up-north
"NTA."
"And please don't apologize to him."
"He was rude to you and he can take ownership of that or f*ck right off."- the_pandax
"YOU did not insult his mother or father."
"They insulted you."
"You walked away from the insult."
"Which is a wise and very valid decision."
"Husband stood up for his wife."
"Meanwhile, his sister is feeling the heat at home so she is turning that heat on her brother hoping you will accept the status quo and get the heat back onto you, where it belongs."
"Stay out of the fray."
"Let your husband defend his wife in the best way he can manage."
"You don't deserve this horrid treatment!"
"NTA."- MonikerSchmoniker
"It's not a misunderstanding, he insulted you plain and simple."
"NTA."- Tkote420
"NTA, ask the sister what the misunderstanding is."
"Ask her exactly what you misunderstood."
"What EXACTLY did FIL mean."- Valuable_Reputation1
"NTA."
"'I'm very sorry that you insulted me and made your son feel uncomfortable about his past'."
"'I'd really like it if we weren't made to feel bad in the future'."- 3bag
"NTA."
"It is good that your husband had your back."
"FIL does owe you an apology."
"SIL should mind her own business."- Deep_Sail7315
"NTA."
"I don't understand how they think your reaction was childish."
"You removed yourself from a tense situation and went to the bathroom."
"It's not like you disappeared for hours since it wasn't even 5 mins before your husband came to get you."- First_Play5335
"NTA."
"There's no misunderstanding."
"FIL knew darn well what he was doing, and so did MIL."
"They set a trap for you and now they're mad because you caught on."
"Eff that."
"The only apology I can think of is 'I'm sorry you're a**holes'."- 2_old_for_this_spit
"NTA."
"Your FIL implied you aren't attractive enough for your husband."
"You stepped away -- your husband made the decision to leave."
"You owe your AH FIL nothing."
"His commentary was mean, and abusive."- ImKiliW
"NTA."
"They need to stop living their son's 'glory days' and respect you as his wife."
"His sister has nothing to say here."- ParsimoniousSalad
"Sorry not sorry."
"I'm sorry you didn't like my reaction to your insult."
"I'm sorry you think your son peaked in high school."
"I'm sorry I didn't drench you in gravy."- dls9543
"I'm 56, and I put up with sh*t like this from my MIL and SIL for over 30 years."
"I didn't have the guts."
"I still resent that my husband never said anything to them."
"You FIL and MIL can f*ck right off!"
"Do NOT apologize —you did absolutely nothing wrong."
"Your FIL is a huge d*ck."- feelingmyage
"NTA."
"That wasn't a misunderstanding."
"It was pretty clear that your father-in-law was putting you down for no good reason at all."
"There's definitely some underlying issue there for him to do that on purpose."
"I'd distance myself if I were you."- Margfarg
"NTA you left the table because of your husband's family's lack of table etiquette."
"They were rude."- quarterlife94
"NTA at all!"
"Your husband and MIL obviously know how FIL acts as they said 'please no', so I personally wouldn't associate myself with MIL or FIL as you did nothing wrong so they don't deserve an apology!"
"You're all grown now, that subject being brought up was unnecessary from the start."
"They both owe you respect and an apology OP."- Few-Extension-5973
Whenever someone begins a sentence by saying "no offense," chances are they are more than aware that what they are about to say will, indeed, offend the person they're speaking to.
So, perhaps, if we feel inclined to preface anything with that term, maybe it's best not to say it at all?
Though, considering the OP's FIL still doesn't seem to see anything wrong with what he said to her, chances are he seldom even bothers to try to lessen the impact of his words with "no offense."
Making it all the more offensive.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp