Too many cooks in a kitchen can lead to disaster.
This rule of thumb really works with any organized event.
It's especially true with weddings.
The day is meant to be about what the happy couple wants.
Oftentimes, it can become about family requests.
And once the requests start flowing, it's highly likely there will be more unhappy people than happy.
Then the couples getting hitched get caught in the crossfire when they should be celebrating.
Case in point...
Redditor Throw-awa-y109 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for refusing to wear my S[ister] I[n] L[aw]'s wedding dress to my wedding?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (23 F[emale]) am getting married to my fiancé (24 M[ale]) in a month."
"He has an identical twin brother with whom he's keeping a bit of a distance because of his past possessive behavior of wanting to share everything with each other, from interests, hobbies, and even friends."
"His brother got eloped to his wife (27 F) and even suggested to my fiancé to do the same on the same day as him."
"But of course, he shut that down quickly as we both agreed on having a wedding already."
"However, I ended up being contacted by my fiancé's brother requesting me to wear his wife's wedding dress from their elopement to my wedding, which I obviously turned down, telling him that I've already got a specific wedding dress on my mind."
"He dropped the subject, and for 2 weeks, I didn't hear about it again."
"So I thought that was the end of it."
"But yesterday, my fiance's brother and his wife showed up at our house (uninvited, may I add), got out SIL's wedding dress, and then literally asked me to try it on right here and that they'd make adjustments if the size doesn't fit."
"Thank God my husband stepped in and kicked them both out of our house, even though it did end up in a really big argument between my fiancé and his brother."
"I got contacted again later on by my B[rother] I[n] L[aw] who said that my inability to make any compromises in order for his and his brother's wedding experiences to be intertwined is straining their relationship."
"Honestly, at this point, I'm just getting the creeps from BIL, and my gut's telling me that he and SIL may attempt to sabotage our wedding out of revenge, and even my husband agrees with the sentiment."
"We're now strongly considering uninviting both my BIL and SIL from our wedding."
"But my husband's still a bit reluctant to do it yet cause of the inevitable drama it'll cause with his family."
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. This is incredibly bizarre behavior, and there must be a mental health issue involved."
"The BIL needs therapy. Your fiancé needs to talk to his brother and if he can't get through you may want to go N[o] C[ontact]." ~ Living-Assumption272
"NTA! This is super creepy!"
"Like BIL needs to learn to be his own person and let your fiancé be his own person too!"
"Set these boundaries now and set them firmly!"
"If you decide to invite them to the wedding, I'd get a couple of friends you trust to watch them and prevent any insanity."
"My friend invited her dad to her wedding."
"He was not on good terms with much of the family and had caused drama in the past, and had me and my two brothers stick by him all night and keep him out of trouble."
"Luckily there wasn't any, but I strongly suspect this is because he knew were were babysitting him." ~ thaliagorgon
"Maybe OP should take the dress - as if she's going to wear it- then leave it locked in a closet at home on the wedding day and obviously wear her own dress!"
"This whole thing is so weird."
"OP, your fiancé needs to firmly tell his brother that he has no interest in having your weddings 'intertwined,' that they are two separate people with separate interests and lives."
"Furthermore, OP and his SIL aren't even related and certainly don't need their weddings intertwined, and they need to back off!"
"Sharing a womb 24 years ago doesn't obligate him always to share everything."
"Fiancé should also tell his parents what his brother is trying to pull and tell them it will not be tolerated. You do not have to share your wedding! NTA." ~ EconomyVoice7358
"It's even more bizarre that the SIL is going along with this craziness. It proves that BIL has met his perfect match. NTA."
"Sidenote... If I were in OP's shoes, I'd honestly consider moving to a different state or country if feasible."
"Also, WTF do the parents think of this behavior?" ~ kreeves9
"Not necessarily. If he is this controlling and possessive with his brother, it wouldn't surprise me that she might be stuck in a toxic (borderline abusive) relationship."
"Maybe she felt pressured to go along with his plan?"
"I don't know, I don't want to assume anything about his wife." ~ ysekh
"I think BIL wants to share more than what they're currently sharing."
"Her wearing his wife's wedding dress makes it easier to imagine he's marrying her as well."
"The wife thing tripped me up, but maybe she wants a go at her new BIL too."
"Seems like two people trying to create a poly family, to be honest."
"It's very abnormal behavior." ~ Amazing_Cabinet1404
"I actually think the SIL fed him the idea because she regrets not having more guests to show off to at her elopement and wants to spend the day telling people it's her dress, scooping up the compliments, and conversation spamming the guests about her own wedding."
"I bet she has her phone in her hand with the wedding photo album on the screen the entire day."
"I reckon she used BIL's obsession to do this, knowing he'd seize on it and not let go."
"Most women would be like, 'I put it in my will, so you can't even wear my dress over my dead body.'" ~ Ebechops
"I grew up with a set of identical twins."
"It was their identity."
"It's all they talked about."
"They switched classes, the whole 9."
"It wouldn't be surprising if this was them! NTA OP." ~ Mrs239
"NTA. This is bizarre behavior, and if you don't nip it in the bud, you're going to wake up at 2 a.m. to your BIL standing over your bed trying to cut and style your hair exactly like his wife's."
"These people are unhinged - keep your distance." ~ Allaboutbird
"Yeah, I've been thinking about this for a minute, and there's no reasonable pathway to the situation being even kinda understandable."
"Brother/SIL might have some kind of hang-up about their elopement wedding, but even if that's the case, still a really weird way to express it. NTA." ~ SomeOtherOrder
"NTA, he definitely sounds like he has a bit of a screw loose."
"Part of me even thinks it's some weird sexual thing." ~ Grouchy-Mushroom4055
"Identical twin here… BIL is nuts."
"Your weddings in no way need to be intertwined."
"Your husband needs to tell his bro that being married doesn't make them less twins." ~ Low_Cook_5235
"I married an identical twin."
"He had no input or interest in our wedding other than being the best man."
"OP's BIL clearly has some mental/emotional issues." ~ Living_Friend3543
"Same, I married a twin, and other than being adorable besties and having him as a best man… he was not involved in our wedding decisions."
"They're very close, but this is some emotional twincest s**t." ~ Responsible-Aside-18
"It's more that the BIL has a need to have everything identical to his twin."
"It's a behavior that's been going on for a while, and OP's fiancé has tried to set a boundary about it due to wanting to be his own person having/doing his own thing."
"BIL wanted them to elope with him and his wife so they could have the same experience, for example."
"He's practically married someone who thinks the same or is going along with his thinking for some reason."
"The fact that he's accusing OP of getting between him and her fiancé regarding their wedding (not his I might add) is telling."
"He's trying to push his way into having something the same to appease his need for an identical wedding."
"Being identical has become his identity, and it's beyond normal behavior."
"BIL needs therapy."
"OP and fiancé are NTA and need to nip it in the bud now if they don't want to have this type of fight with BIL and his wife for the rest of their lives."
"Also, I might watch too many crime shows on ID, but it's giving me the single white female vibe in identical twin form." ~ DearOP_
"NTA. Your fiancé and BIL are not five anymore where they have to wear matching outfits and share toys."
"This is you and your fiance's wedding, not your BIL and SIL."
"They had their day."
"You have yours the way you both want without your BIL inserting himself."
"By the way... what is your M[other] I[n] L[aw] stance on all this?" ~ Serious-Currency108
OP had a reply...
"According to my fiancé, their mom always found it adorable how his brother wanted to share and do everything together with him when they were children."
"And I don't think that stance from her has changed."
"Especially because my fiancé is sure she'll completely object to him uninviting his brother from his wedding if it gets there."
"My fiancé told me that whenever he brought it up to his parents how some of his brother's behavior made him uncomfortable when they were teens, they just told him that it's normal for twins to want to be close to each other."
"And that he should be glad his brother loves him so much, so for them, this is just normal 'twins behavior.'"
Well, OP, sounds like Reddit is with.
Sorry that you and your fiancé are having this issue.
You should be in a blissful stage of planning flowers and cake, not worrying about security breaches and sabotage.
Hopefully, your fiancé's parents will realize this is all a bit much, and maybe they can step in and assist.
Until then, stay safe, and good luck.
Also... Congratulations!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp