It's always an adjustment for parents and children when children start to grow up, and must learn to be independent.
Many parents still offer to help their children however they can, especially when they believe they really need it.
Others think that children need to learn from experience, and begin offering less and less help, forcing them to become self-sufficient.
No matter how uncomfortable or unwilling they might be.
On a recent outing, the daughter of Redditor Prudent_Dream_8397 suddenly fell hungry, and asked the original poster (OP) OP if they could stop for some food.
While the OP obliged they would only do so on one condition.
A condition the OP's daughter was so uncomfortable with, that she decided to forgo eating all together, and simply go home instead.
After being scolded by their wife for this turn of events, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where they asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for letting my daughter be hungry and not ordering for her at a fast food place?"
The OP explained why they refused to order for their daughter at a fast food restaurant, and why their wife was so angry about it:
"My daughter is 15 and she has social anxiety."
"She is in counseling for it and not meds (not needed)."
"The rule in our household is that if you want fast food when we are out you pay for it with your own money."
"If you don't have McDonald's money you aren't going there."
"I also don't allow eating in the car, so we stop at places to eat."
"We had to go out and do some errands."
"I told her to grab something to eat before hand but she said she wasn't hungry."
"We go on our errands and halfway through she wants to stop by Wendy's."
"I pull in and tell her to go order I will get a seat."
"She comes back a few minutes later and tells me she can't order."
"She doesn't want to talk to the cashier at the front of the store."
"I told her she needs to order and we will head out."
"She asked me to order and I told her no."
"We sit for about 10 minutes when I tell her it's time to go."
"She in short is pissed and my wife is also upset I didn't order for her."
"That I let her go hungry."
"I find this stupid I didn't starve her for days it was 4 hour outing."
"Her counselor has told us she she needs to start doing this stuff on her own, this was low risk."
"She literally gave the example of ordering food without our help."
"I also ran through a script with her at the table but she wouldn't do it."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community unanimously agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for refusing to order for their daughter at the fast food restaurant.
Everyone agreed that the OP was very much taking his daughter's social anxiety into account, and only doing what her counselor suggested, with many who also suffer or know someone who suffers from social anxiety agreeing that this was the best course of action:
"As a kid that suffered with social anxiety, to an adult who still suffers, my parents pushed me out of my comfort zone a lot like this."
"Low risk, low stakes talking to strangers."
"This ranged from my mum always giving me the credit card to pay for our grocery shopping so I only had to answer questions like 'how are you?'"
"And 'Cash or Card?' to coaching me through phone calls 15 minutes beforehand so I could book my own appointments."
"I am so grateful for them because they now let me live like a normal(ish) adult."
"And yeah, I still rehearse my script four times before I go in to any store and yeah, on really bad days I still make my boyfriend ask for no pickles and mustard on my McDonald's burger."
"But I can function without someone holding my hand."
"I couldn't have done that without my parents pushing me at times where I just wanted to clam up."
"Anxiety is a b*tch to all, but she does at this point need to know why you went about it the way you did and know that you are her support system."
"Every action needs to be justified when anxiety is involved, it's awful but it's true."
"Overall, NTA."
"But still talk to her."- oooodle8458
"NTA."
"You were on the right side of helping vs enabling, and helping vs doing it for her."- Right_Count
"NTA."
"Your daughter needs to start doing minimal effort activities to help with her social anxiety and this was an example of one such activity."
"In addition, you tried to prep your child beforehand by reminding her to eat and she did not."
"Part of raising kids in a healthy manner is teaching them the consequences of their actions in addition to preparing them for the real world."
"Her anxiety is manageable but she needs to learn how to manager on her own."
"You cannot hold her hand her whole life and she will not be a functioning adult unless she learns how."
"That process is going to be hard, there is no two ways around it."
"So, it would stand to reason that the first few times she attempts to do something different than the norm she might fail and everyone is gonna be upset at the outcome."
"To me, this seems like a step forward."
"Change is frustrating because it's not an overnight thing, it's more akin to moving the needle."
"Change isn't harming or hurtful, it is a stretch."
"You offered her options, offered to role play, and she shut that down."
"She's allowed to ask for your help, you're allowed to say no."
"You're allowed to offer help, she's allowed to say no."
"That's all that happened here."
"You and your wife need to get on board together to figure out how to handle when your daughter pushes back support she doesn't want."
"Work with the therapist to find tangible solutions."
"I see a parent who handled this reasonably."- CuriousTsukihime
"NTA."
"I have anxiety, a panic disorder, and BPD."
"My job is actually a lot of calling people which is really unfortunate because I STRUGGLE with phone calls."
"That's why I have a written out script for calling people."
"I totally understand her fear, but the longer she waits to start managing her distress and finding ways to cope with life the harder it will be as she gets older."
'Bad days are inevitable, but she really needs these skills to not struggle in adulthood."
"She's going to have to do her own insurance, find a rental, do her own grocery shopping, etc one day."
"The more coping skills she builds before then the better off she's going to be."
"What does she think is going to happen when she needs a job."
"She's going to have to interact with strangers and learn to be okay with it."
"I totally understand and can relate to her distress but you're not doing anything that will cause her any harm."
"You sound like a very loving and concerned dad."
"I used to get mad at mine for trying to help too because I didn't register that he was trying to help, not be mean."
"Heck, my dad was never mean about it but for an anxious teen even something small can feel like their world is ending."
"Hopefully with some more therapy and ongoing support from you she'll develop the skills she needs and realize that everything you're gently trying to push her to do is with her best interest at."-Saltynut99
"NTA."
"The first time I had to call and order a pizza was the worst day of my life."
"It is the easiest thing in the world to do, but I was terrified!"
"My mom sat down with me wrote out a script that included my own friggin name and phone number, plus the order and her card number."
"She stayed with me the whole time, and when I was done with the call I felt like a million bucks!"
"That was hands down the best pizza night we had. I am so happy my mom made me do stuff like this."
"She had me start ordering at restaurants and even made me answer the phone to tell telemarketers 'we don't want any'."
"These are very important soft skills."
"You are definitely doing the right thing by allowing your daughter space and opportunity to be uncomfortable."- MurellaDvil
No matter how old we get, we sometimes must do something we don't want.
Something the OP's daughter must start learning, even certain things most people wouldn't give even the tiniest thought to might now seem like an insurmountable hurdle to her.
Thankfully, she'll soon realize that each small step eventually adds up to one giant leap.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp