Another day, another questionable bride.
Today's bride-in-question is Redditor Tricky-Ice2042. The Original Poster (OP) is soon marrying her boyfriend of 10 years.
Recently the OP's older sister went through a divorce after being married for 8 years. Like many divorcees, the OP's sister is disenchanted with the idea of love.
Because of her sister's jaded attitude, the OP is considering revoking her invitation to her big day.
This drove the OP to subReddit AITA (Am I the A**hole?).
She asked:
"WIBTA if I banned my sister from my wedding?"
She explained:
"My [Female age 27] sister [Female age 42] is recently divorced from her husband after 8 years of marriage!"
"She is really struggling emotionally and I feel for her, however, I am getting married on January 13th to my boyfriend of 10 years [Male age 28]…"
'"…and she keeps talking about how love is a lie and I will regret my marriage in the long run! I get she is upset, but I've gotten to the point where I'm considering banning her from my wedding!"
"WIBTA if I banned my sister?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"NAH."
"Talk to her. Lead with love and patience. Tell her you love her and you don't want the wedding to be triggering for her, so she can participate to whatever extent feels right to her…"
"…and you give her permission to duck out early, skip it, whatever it takes to take care of herself."
"That you'd love for her to be there because she's your sister but that you know there are extenuating circumstances."
"Tell her what you need and expect from her in terms of support. Be the grown-up here - give her some grace but be firm, and ask if she feels she can meet these."
"This may be to try to control her emotions, to avoid snide comments, to stay sober, or whatever makes sense."
"On the day of, assign a calm and emotionally intelligent third party the job of buffer, handler, what have you."
"That'll give you the peace of mind to know she's not gonna cross the line or that if she does, there will be someone whose job it is to keep it out of your sight."
"You're always in charge of what you allow on your wedding day. And all other days too, right?"
"Before you ban her from anything, talk to her. Let her know that you love her and understand this is a very difficult time for her but that her negativity is stressing you out."
"Decide together what would be best- surely she can understand that you don't want her saying things like 'love is a lie' at your wedding."
"Maybe she's just not in a headspace right now where she can be there for you and support you. If that's the case, no hard feelings either way."
"She should stay home and you should enjoy your wedding. But discuss it with her and come to a mutually agreeable solution. NAH" - NicoleWarrenDiver
"ESH, I can understand the frustration given that your wedding is around the corner and hers just ended. I would sit her down with maybe a parent as a mediator or on the phone."
"Simply so it's not (he said she said) and let her understand that you get her pain. You understand she's going through a hard time."
"But that if love isn't meant to be for yourself it will come when it's time. I would say let her know that she's welcome to attend, but if she's too uncomfortable to attend you understand."
"But make it clear that if she makes a scene or becomes unruly she will be asked to leave. That way she understands and has time to process and decide what her next step is." - Foxfire_vixen
"ESH"
"Talk to her. Not including her will ruin the relationship between you two. Or at the very least seriously strain it."
"She is understandably hurt but still as a grown woman she could be more careful in what she says to the bride-to-be."
"Tell her how hurtful her current behaviour is for you."
"Let her be a part of your big day if she's up to it but be crystal clear she needs to suck it up for one day as this is about you, not her."
"And give her an open honest out with no strings attached if it is too much for her." - neurodivergent_poet
"NAH (not yet, anyway). Sis needs to stop the negative comments, they are simply unfair right now. She should be less involved with the preparation and change her tune."
"Can your MOH or your parents talk to her about this? She needs to stop, and you need to be sure she won't cause a scene at the wedding or reception."
"IMO it is too soon to withdraw the invitation, but past time to tell her to change her behaviour."
"Also - congratulations, health and prosperity to you both" - Ozludo
"YWBTA if you do this without trying to talk with her first."
"Tell her her views and opinion about marriage are her own and from her perspective, and it's unfair to generalize her bad experience…"
"…moreover to you while you are in your own wedding phase."
"That you want your special day to be filled with positive thoughts and mood and the best she could do is to be happy for you and hope the best for you. All relationships are not doomed."
"Then if she argue and keeps on her rantings maybe you should look for other options." - ArmyPatate
"It depends have you talked to her about this before? Asked her to stop?"
"If you did all these things and she continued anyway Then sit her down and tell her that you completely understand that a wedding is the last thing on her mind…"
"…And to make it easy on her so she won't have to feel bad about ditching you or going when she clearly doesn't want to you are uninviting her"
"However if you hadn't What the hell talk to her first" - Serendipity_1310
"NTA. Before just banning her, reach out to her and make the point to her that you get it she is going through a lot, but she has no right to take it out on you and you had enough."
"Either she behaves or she will be excluded from your wedding. You literally just want her to stay quiet. That is not asking for much." - Hbellinati
"YWBTA - she's going through a rough time and projecting, but don't ban her from your wedding. She's your sister, and presumably, you've had a good relationship up until now."
"Saying a few crazy things when you're going through an emotional and chaotic period in your life shouldn't be enough to get her banned."
"The only thing I would watch is her alcohol intake. You don't want her over-drinking in sorrow and getting weepy or loud."
"Can you assign a cousin or a friend to hang out with her at the event and help monitor that?" - Latter-Shower-9888
"NAH."
"Your sister is entitled to her feelings post-breakup. What she is NOT entitled to do is let her inside feelings run around on the outside during your wedding."
"So, it's time to be an adult and have an adult conversation with your sister."
"Tell her you want her at your wedding and it wouldn't be the same without her, but if she feels she can't refrain from being miserable or making negative comments during the wedding/reception…"
"…she should just stay home because this day is important to you." - NorthernLitUp
"YWBTA"
"Not inviting her to your wedding is drastic and uncalled for. Instead, use your words like an adult and tell her to stop reflecting her anger about her sh*t on your relationship." - wtfreddit741741
"YTA. That's a cold thing to even consider"
"You could just talk to her. Say that you know that she's hurting but you need her to pause the 'love is a lie'-talk on your wedding day."
"Adults talk to each other. We don't go straight to banning people from weddings!!!" - ohdearitsrichardiii
"NTA. When you invite people to your wedding, you're asking them to witness your vows and, by implication, support them."
"I realize this isn't always what's happening inside someone's own thoughts, but everyone should at least know how to behave at a public ceremony."
"You should have an honest conversation with your sister and ask her if she can put her feelings aside for a day to support you."
"If she balks, tell her you'll save her a slice of cake." - notcontageousAFAIK
"NTA in spirit because it's a joyous celebration because dealing with ongoing negativity and 'woe is me' can be mentally exhausting."
"However, in practice, it would be a dick (YWBTA) move."
"Rather than ban her, I'd speak to her and explain that you understand that she's struggling emotionally and that she's been struggling with the divorce…"
"…and ask her to for one day to at least pretend to be happy for you." - nikkesen
Hopefully, the two sisters can come to common ground before the OP's big day.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp