With the wedding industry being as big as it is, it's no wonder that weddings take a ridiculous amount of planning to pull them off.
Often, loved ones will share their opinions about how the happy couple is planning their special day, even when those opinions are not welcome, cringed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
The Redditor, who has since deleted her account, made the decision to only include one of her nieces in her wedding as a flower girl because the other one was super shy.
But when the shy one became jealous and her mother started demanding a flower girl role for her, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if she was wrong to not include her from the beginning.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for only picking one of my nieces to be my flower girl?"
The OP's two nieces had very different personalities.
"I (26 Female) am getting married in January. I have a niece who is seven, we'll call her Jess. And my partner has a niece who is five, we'll call her Ava."
"Jess is painfully shy. She has cried through every single school function she's been in, hates having her photo taken, and takes a long time to warm up to people."
The OP made a tough decision for her wedding regarding her two nieces.
"So, when we picked our flower girl, the obvious choice was Ava."
"It just felt too risky to pick Jess as a flower girl. Jess is known for getting all excited about an event in the months, weeks, and even days leading up to it, and then getting cold feet at the last minute and freaking out. She also runs off when she's upset, which felt like a major safety issue."
"I just knew from the get-go that it would not go smoothly."
There were consequences to the OP's decision.
"And that seemed fine, until a few weeks ago. Now, Jess is becoming jealous."
"Ava was practicing the other day, and she tried to rip the basket out of her hands and we had to separate them. She keeps complaining about how Ava gets a dress with a bow and called her 'a stupid baby.'"
Jess's mother lashed out at the OP.
"Jess's mother is mad at me now, saying that I shouldn't have based my decision of Jess's previous actions and that I should let her be my flower girl because she 'wants to be one so very bad.'"
"Jess's mom said that she doesn't have to apologize to Ava for being physical, because 'these are big feelings for a little girl,' and I just about lost it."
"When I said that I'm not changing my mind so close to the wedding, she said that my favoritism is showing."
"I'm not trying to play favorites, I just thought that Jess would be miserable in that particular situation. I had no idea that this would be such a big deal."
"AITA for my choice of flower girl?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some agreed it was the OP's wedding to plan, not her niece's.
"NTA. Your wedding is just that, yours."
"You made a choice about who you'd like to be flower girl, and Jess's mom needs to teach her to keep her hands off Ava and to not throw fits when things don't go her way." - Stardust_Shinah
"Jess's mom is failing as a parent for that. 'Big feelings' isn't an excuse to not teach your child how to process their feelings properly. It's up to the parent to teach a child how to manage big feelings, not to brush them off without addressing them."
"It's a disservice to Jess to not teach her how to better accept when she's upset, it told no, or has some uncontrollable (perceived) unfairness happen to her." - ctortan
"NTA. It's your wedding and you get to choose who is involved. Also, what kind of message are you sending Jess if you reward her behavior toward Ava. (Physically stealing things and name-calling is NOT how you get what you want!)" - aj_alva
"NTA. You made this decision partially to protect Jess from her own embarrassment/crying in public. It's not your fault she can't handle being in public functions."
"By the way, you could have had both of them be flower girls. I've been to multiple weddings where they have more than one. But it's your wedding so if that wouldn't have fit your aesthetic, then that by itself makes you not the AH." - spokanyan
"NTA. You selected a flower girl based on who you thought could best do it. This wasn't selecting who you love more!"
"Jess reacting the way she did, is on her parents, not you. A life lesson could have been taught, take your pick: sometimes you don't get what you want, lashing out when jealous isn't good, etc. but instead, let's reward nasty behavior and blame someone for MAKING her misbehave." - ariesinnc3017
Others were critical of the OP's actions.
"You should have either offered the role to both kids or never have practiced wedding stuff in front of the kid you chose to exclude. That was so mean. Expecting a seven-year-old to not react to having her face rubbed in the fact that you trusted and chose a younger kid over her was unrealistic."
"Most weddings I've been to with children as flower girls/boys had at least kid one panic and hide. It's not a big deal. Their parents just stay with them outside the doors and the kid(s) comfortable with the role keep walking forward."
"But in that scenario, you haven't targeted or excluded a child for being anxious. A flower girl dress isn't that expensive, and the cost is worth it to not hurt the children you are supposed to care about."
"YTA." - LostDogBoulderUtah
"Did you consider (right at the start of your planning) buying Jess the flower girl dress, without expecting her to actually be a flower girl?"
"You only have one niece, and you're giving the super cool treat to another little girl of a similar age, who isn't related to you (she's not your niece yet!)."
"Didn't it occur to you that a small child might be really sad at being excluded from this big event - and that there are ways to include them kindly?"
"My little sister was a young toddler at our aunt's wedding. Big sister and I got proper bridesmaids dresses, and little sister got a 'matching' toddler-style dress, so she looks super cute in the photos she's in, but there was no attempt to get her to behave like a bridesmaid during the day."
"It feels like YTA here because this could absolutely have been predicted (unless Jess hates girly outfits). Of course, Jess is behaving terribly, but she's feeling big feelings that she didn't know how to handle, and sounds like her mum is no help with that. Poor kid; she's going to have a terrible life if she's not taught those skills." - AmberAllDay
"Seems like having both girls be flower girls would be an easy fix. So when Jess inevitably gets cold feet, Ava can continue on. Or, maybe if they were doing it together, Jess might have had more confidence doing it with someone else. Or maybe think of another job Jess could do (that won't really be an issue if she flakes out)."
"I think this is a slight YTA. Jess obviously wants to be involved. Giving her a small task could have probably smoothed this over." - seregil42
"Do you know anything about kids? Do you not have siblings? She ripped the basket out of the other one's hands and called her a baby. It's not ok and should have consequences but it's also not the dramatic level of violence people are making it out to be. Comments are making it sound like she took a crowbar to her cousin's knees."
"And it happened only after they started literally doing flower girl stuff IN FRONT OF HER. No seven-year-old is going to take that well." - Stupidbutts69
"All these comments here are making me feel like none of these people actually have kids. She's only seven and she didn't get asked for something special while another girl did, who can even have a pretty dress with a bow (apparently very important to her), and OP is letting the other girl practice in front of her like salt to the wounds."
"And now everybody here is saying she has to 'deal with it' like a grown-up, and she can't have a pretty dress anymore because her 'horrible, horrible behavior can't be rewarded.'"
"If you ask me, this girl is just deeply hurt and I can't blame her. She should apologize to the other girl for lashing out because, no, it's not right."
"OP should have a talk with her to let her know why things happened. And if I were her mom, I would buy her a pretty dress myself. Ugh." - Rich-Protection2188
Some gave the OP suggestions for what to do to make the situation better.
"NTA. Get Jess a matching dress and put her in charge of the guest book. It's a 'much more responsible job' since she can probably read better than a five-year-old." - Sufficient-Dinner-72
"YTA. She is seven years old. She is a small child. This is extremely normal behavior (not to mention predictable; honestly, you should have seen this coming)."
"Let her have a pretty dress and a little basket of flower petals or whatever. If she gets cold feet and can't do the flower girl thing when the time comes, no one needs to force it because the other kid will have it covered. But this way, she gets to be included and have a good social learning opportunity."
"You could be kind and generous, but you're taking a hard-line stance with a little child. YTA." - mechanical-being
"Tell the jealous little girl and her family that sure she can be a flower girl, too. And they can buy the dress and the shoes and if the little girl has a panic attack at showtime, as her history has shown her to be very likely to do…well, the crying little girl will be promptly escorted to a quiet room with a solid door away from the ceremony where she will disturb no one."
"And make it clear that your wedding will not be delayed by one minute if Jess is hesitant at a crucial moment. If Jess wants to be a flower so very very much, you will let her, if, and only if she plays her role as required."
"NTA and drama like this is why some people just elope. But if you decide Jess is too much to deal with, then you certainly don't have to let her be the second flower girl."
"And anybody that disagrees? Ask them whose wedding is it… and who is paying for it?" - YouthNAsia63
"YTA. She's seven. Keep that in mind. You assumed that a seven-year-old would know what a flower girl was. She's seven, and she didn't know."
"Your niece is feeling hurt, rejected, and probably that her own aunt doesn't like her as much as Ava."
"You could easily have two flower girls. Maybe doing it together with Ava would help her not be so shy. Is your one day more important than your lifelong relationship with your niece?"
"You still have time to fix this with your niece. I would tell her you didn't realize how much it would mean to her to be a flower girl and that you love her. Tell her she can be a flower girl with Ava."
"Have her parents buy the dress and if she freaks out the day of, tell her it's ok and that she doesn't have to."
"Again, she's seven, and people are expecting way too much maturity out of a seven-year-old." - DeeFromTheD6498
"Maybe OP could ask to sit down with Jess (with mom present) and explain. apologize for assuming what Jess wants and excluding her, and say that she cares about Jess but she guessed wrong on this. Just tell her she's loved and OP is sorry. When an adult who cares about them apologizes and takes responsibility, it's powerful."
"Depending on how that goes it could lead the way for OP to talk to Jess about her actions being mean. Jess acted how many seven-year-olds might act in an unfair situation, but OP could ask Jess to help her fix what happened (like, if Jess gets it that what she did was wrong, help Jess talk to Ava to ask if she is okay, hopefully apologize, etc)."
"Maybe if Jess can show that she can turn it around and be responsible, show she's sorry, OP can open the opportunity up for her to be a flower girl too and emphasize that this is a team effort and if she can be kind to others, especially Ava, OP would like to have her on her wedding day team."
"If Jess and/or her mom aren't receptive, then that is their choice but OP would have communicated in a healthy manner. They will remember that someday."
"Instead of writing off a big memory as ruined and having Jess just excluded and hurting (and hurting younger cousin), why not make this a teachable moment and really help the kids by example, both how to handle when you made a poor choice, and what family and marriage is supposed to be all about? That would be a really powerful memory, in my honest opinion." - TinyYellowTerribissis
The subReddit was deeply divided over this situation, as they could all agree that Jess had behaved terribly, though it seemed to be correctable, especially if the OP wanted to maintain a relationship with her.
Most believed that the bride needed to come up with some way of involving both of her nieces in her wedding, if after a conversation about what was acceptable behavior, even for a seven-year-old.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp