Grief is an ugly entity that presents in each person differently, and we all have our own ways of dealing with it.
But a person's process of grieving also should not hurt someone else, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor Bride_Singer_23 had been with her husband for years before he lost any family members, but when his father and sister passed away, his mother changed so much due to grief.
When his mother's grief began to impact every area of their life, including their upcoming wedding, the Original Poster (OP) knew it was time to set new boundaries.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for leaving up a picture that angerls my MIL (Mother-in-Law)?"
The OP tried to sympathize with her mother-in-law's grieving process.
"I (25 Female) married my husband Joe (27 Male) four months ago. We dated all through high school and college, so we have been in each other's lives and in each other's families for quite some time."
"Joe's father died when we were seniors in high school, and his sister Jill died three years ago (about six years after his father)."
"Since then, his mother, Jean, has been, in my opinion, unhinged. I cannot imagine her sense of loss and I know everyone has their own grief process so I really try not to judge, but she makes everything about her grief."
"She didn't come to our college graduation because she would never get to see Jill graduate from college."
"We try to be especially kind to her on Mother's Day, but she spends HOURS at the cemetery and gets very irate if we leave before she's ready to. She insists we give our first child her husband's name as a first or middle name and gets angry when we say we'll name our future children as we see fit. There have been other incidents, too."
She's done so much to push Joe away while also relying on him for emotional and sometimes financial support. They have a very unhealthy relationship now.
The situation became worse while the OP and her husband were wedding planning.
"It came to a head when we were wedding planning. I invited her to go wedding dress shopping with me, my mom, my grandma, and my maid of honor."
"I told her she did not need to come if it was going to be painful for her, but she said she would be happy to."
"To all of our surprise, she came and brought a wedding gown that Jill had purchased to save for her own wedding someday."
"She said it would help her if I tried it on and I did, which made her cry, but then she insisted that it was my dress and I didn't need to get another one."
"After multiple refusals, she pouted the rest of the time. It was so awkward for everyone."
This impacted the wedding day, too.
"This led to a lot of drama, to the point where Joe (and me, but mostly Joe) did not want her at the wedding because we couldn't trust her to not cause some kind of scene and because we thought it would be terrible for her mental health."
"We asked her not to come and she agreed not to. I got to have a dance with my dad, and my mom surprised Joe by stepping in for a mother's dance with him. They smiled and laughed the whole time. It was the most special part of our wedding, to me."
Jean later struggled with what the OP shared about the wedding online.
"I recently changed my FB cover photo to a picture of Joe and my mom dancing and laughing. Jean saw this and has been coming at us for it, saying it's just a reminder that she was excluded from her son's wedding day."
"I told her I'm not taking it down and that if she doesn't want to see it, she can simply not look at my Facebook."
"She says I am inconsiderate of her feelings and that I am an AH for this because 'it drives another wedge' between her and her son."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some sympathized with the mother-in-law (MIL) but insisted she needed therapy.
"At this point, I think you should use it as a bargaining chip. You guys need to keep her at arm's length until she gets into grief counseling with a therapist and meets with a therapist long-term."
"Until she is working with a grief therapist, every event will become like your wedding did. You want this dealt with before a child is in the picture. Truly."
"NTA." - Adventurous-Try1728
"Has she always been like this, but to a lesser extreme? mostly with her husband? Grief is a tricky thing, but something seems off enough that I don't think this is just grief. I'm a widow (seven years) and sadly so is a long-time friend (three years), and neither of us has behaved close to this."
"Another close friend died of cancer this past August, and her boyfriend has called because I get it, same for him. I also lost my brother to cancer in June. It's been a f**king lot. A lot. I still haven't behaved like this at all."
"Some of this sounds like what you might expect, but... it's hard to say. Grief isn't an excuse for s**tty behavior. I imagine it had to be that to get disinvited. I feel bad for Joe. He didn't get to have his dad, sister, or mom at the wedding. That had to hurt, yet his mom isn't even recognizing that and making it about her. That's why I ask if this has been around, but maybe FIL had been a buffer that isn't there anymore."
"Either way, I agree she needs therapy. Hopefully, she can come around. I also want to suggest Joe think about therapy, too. If he has to cut out his mom, it's a lot like death and involves grief. I had to do that with my dad at 18. That's a lot for him."
"NTA. That's your Facebook page. She is 100% responsible for her behavior and responses, even when grief is involved." - Blurby-Blurbyblurb
"Your MIL needs therapy to help her deal with these tragedies. She's obviously hurting very much and doesn't know how to deal with it." - Substantial_Jaguar41
"At some point, MIL becomes the reason for her behavior, and not the grief."
"However sorry you feel for what she's been through, there comes a time you will have little to even no empathy left for her situation. That's absolutely a normal response, as you or your husband are not and cannot be responsible for her happiness and well-being. You can do nothing but gently guide her into understanding she needs therapy to maintain a relationship, but the rest is fully on her."
"To be blunt, her mental health is above your pay grade, and you aren't her therapist. When her mental health becomes a reason for such personal distress, often the only option is to eventually go no contact (NC)."
"Your husband needs therapy to help deal with this realization. Know that his therapy will likely lead to NC if she refuses to get her own help. If your husband doesn't go to therapy, it's going to tear him apart bit by bit."
"I've been there, it's exhausting, it's draining and I had a complete burnout because of it. Healing takes years from a parent who, in all honesty, is employing tactics of emotional blackmail."
"Remember that a lot of people who are abusive are people who have mental issues, and don't necessarily set out to abuse the others around them. They just can't help themselves. There's plenty of personality disorders that lead to abuse of others around them."
"But we still recognize their behavior as abusive. I have a feeling MIL's behavior starts to qualify, especially as seen from the perspective of your husband, who was never given the chance to grief and had to step up as his mom's therapist." - Call_Me_Aiden
"My sympathies to all of you, even including MIL. She SOOOO needs intensive grief counseling, as she's clearly off the rails."
"Good luck to all of you." - Tight-Shift5706
Others pointed out that the OP's husband, Joe, was in need of help, too.
"Joe needs to push HARD for grief therapy for her. And if she won't go then HE needs to go to therapy to learn how to deal with her because this is no way to live." - Adventurous-Try1728
"Joe is grieving his father and sibling, and he probably has very little space to do that himself because of his mother's expressions of grief, and he has to grieve his mother, while still finding the strength to set boundaries with her."
"Of course, MIL needs therapy, but it's striking that the post and comments are so wholly about her wellness instead of Joe's. I don't mean that as a dig at OP, like she's oblivious to her husband's pain, but maybe Joe needs to be refocused on his own wellness." - yet_another_sock
"It's not like his mom going to grief therapy is going to magically fix everything overnight. It's going to be months if not years before there's any meaningful progress considering her grief has been left unchecked for a decade, and Joe needs the tools to be able to set boundaries with his mom while she works to get to a healthier place."
"Oh, and she has to want to do the work and put in the effort for therapy to work. Therapists aren't magicians." - verdantwitch
"I'm sure Joe is also to a point grieving the loss of his mom from the past, the one that used to show him affection, cause it seems she is so in her grief despair that she is literally pushing away the only child she has left, which is really sad."
"As one day she is going to come to the realization that Joe doesn't have the same feelings and love for her as he did due to how she acted... NTA, OP." - Empressario
"Therapy for the people who have to deal with people who refuse therapy is often how it goes (unfortunately)."
"I vote NTA, but mate, you've got some work to do to find balance in your own lives away from this poor lady who is wilfully pushing her son to breaking point. Her grief is hers to deal with, it's such a shame she seems to only see what she's lost and not the joys life has given her (your family, future grandchildren, etc.)" - Efficient-Emu-7776
Malicious or not, some pointed out that the Facebook photo was a problem, too.
"I get why she chose that photo, but I also see why the MIL would be hurt by it."
"I would take it down myself and exchange it with something else (maybe a pic with them both, but NOT one specifically with her mom in the role the husband's mom would usually fill), but I also haven't been dealing with the situation she has, and I wouldn't judge her for keeping it." - ChickenBossChiefsFan
"Gentle ESH. She sounds annoying AF and very self-centered."
"But per the photo, I think it is (hopefully unintentionally) spiteful to put up a picture where your mom served in his mom's place at the wedding. Yes, she misbehaved herself out of an invitation, but she kept her word and agreed not to come."
"In her place, I would think it's pretty mean of you to display a picture that will always remind her that she wasn't part of such a big day in his life, especially because it's YOUR Facebook photo of your husband and mom. A family wedding photo where she isn't there is more justifiable."
"I don't know, I think it seems petty." - tsweetsie
"Here's where I'm at with this. The whole situation sucks. It is tough because her MIL is poorly treating the child she doesn't treat properly, she is probably still blinded by grief and cannot see what she's doing. However, it is not an excuse for her or a free pass since grief counseling exists, or even just listening to what her son is telling her."
"While my future MIL hasn't had any children pass, she constantly acts as if she is in competition with me and he's breaking up with her. It's been a long road and she plays the victim when any boundaries are set, but I do not think I would post a photo like this on my social media to show the world."
"While I understand it's a tender and emotional moment, it would probably be better displayed within the home. Putting it up on Facebook, even as a cover photo, is basically announcing to the world that the mother of the groom was not at the wedding, a walking advertisement that there is a family drama. I say this as someone who does like to poke the petty bear every once in a while. This was probably toeing the line." - Mindless_Ad_6275
"In all other ways, I'd say the OP is NTA... but she is the a**hole for posting this picture as her cover photo. It's a weird choice even if things were normal and his mom was in attendance, but it's worse by drawing so much attention to it." - Due_Emphasis_6653
"Why wouldn't she choose any other pic but this one? I think it's an amazing gesture that her mom stepped into the mother role on the wedding day. But why the f**k do you need to put it on Facebook? Just put a pic of her dancing with her dad if she needs a wedding pic as her main pic. Pretty disrespectful, even though the mom sucks."
"Sounds almost like OP is willing to do anything to get her MIL triggered and make her freak out. I'd just keep the MIL at arm's length and keep visits with her to a couple of hours at a time. Preferably once every few months. If the son wants to visit her go ahead, but he needs to keep a safe distance too, and not get sucked into his mom's grief."
"It's been nine years, and she needs major help." - pimpinaintez18
The subReddit deeply empathized with the OP and her husband about what they were going through with their mother-in-law. It wasn't their fault that she was grieving, and her level of grief was far above their pay grade.
That said, there were still things they could do to help her, even if that meant taking down a Facebook photo, as some encouraged the OP to help keep the mental peace.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp