Any time money changes hands there's some sort of agreement at play on what is expected from everyone involved.
Whether that's a legal contract, a friendly understanding, or some variation thereof.
So, what happens when the parties involved can't seem to agree on the terms?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) anon1968anon when she came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my son and his fiance I won't pay for the wedding if I can't invite some family members"
OP got right to the situation at hand.
"I 54 [female] have 3 kids, the one pertaining to this post is 26 [male] we'll call him Caleb."
"Caleb has been with his fiance (Ashley 26) for four years, and they recently got engaged. I have offered to pay for their wedding with two stipulations"
"They use a wedding planner- I feel this is essential due to the size of the event and the amount of money going into it."
"I have eight people I'm inviting (older relatives that I'm close with)."
"They both agreed to a wedding planner and said they will look for one that they feel comfortable with."
"The issue is Ashley does not want me to be able to invite anyone."
"Caleb knows the relatives well, but he's not super close with them, and Ashley has only met them a few times."
"The wedding is going to be a very large and grand affair she comes from a very large family, and we have a very large family."
"We're expecting 300 to 400 guests, and I've given them a budget of $150,000 USD."
"Caleb says he doesn't care, but it makes Ashley uncomfortable since she doesn't know them that well and it's her day."
"Her family is saying that I am TA (even though they aren't willing to continue financially). I don't care about any of the other details of their wedding; whatever they choose is fine as long as I get the two things that I want."
She was left to wonder,
"So Reddit am I TA?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: NTA
Some felt that Ashley was in the wrong.
"NTA. Caleb says he doesn't care, but it makes Ashley uncomfortable since she doesn't know them that well "
With 400 guests, there is no way she will know every single person "well" or even at all. It's a power play. ~ Garamon7
"More like 'we get that much money for free and get to do what we want? Sign me up!'"
"'Also, I don't want to make any concessions for a person who is helping out financially.' She is welcome to pay that much money herself and see how it works out." ~ Teel1ng
For others, it was just about the money.
"But those 8 people were never part of her vision for her 'dream wedding!' Though apparently OP's bankroll was." ~ calling_water
"NTA."
"Don't understand the problem."
"If Ashley doesn't want the eight people to come to her wedding, all she has to do is politely decline OP's offer to pay for it."
"Problem solved." ~ SnapesGrayUnderpants
"Sounds like your son needs a prenuptial, and you save the money for a second wedding."
"Ashley sounds entitled, unyielding, and rude."
"I have to wonder if she is always this way."
"At this point, I would seriously consider never spending that much based on the way she's treated you."
"Anyone who calls you out on the money should be standing there with their wallet open. Sorry about your accident."
"NTA" ~ Nervous_Hippo8855
OP did return with some updates.
"the eight people are my aunts and uncles. They helped me a lot with the kids."
"We don't come from money, I was in a severe car accident that left me paralyzed from the waist down."
"With the lawsuit money, I made some investments that turned out to be very lucrative."
"Without their help between watching the kids and financially, I would have been up sh*ts creek without a paddle when my kids were younger."
"I see a lot of people saying that she's a gold digger, but I do not agree with that."
"Her father is a very well-respected and sought-after criminal defense attorney in our area."
"Her mom runs an at-home business."
"Ashley is currently a surgical intern whereas Caleb is an RN."
"Her parents paid for all of them to go to college which is why they're not willing to contribute financially towards a wedding."
"I just got done having lunch with Caleb to talk to him about the conundrum we're in."
"He said that he hasn't spoken to her about what they've done for us in the past."
"He did not realize that it would be such a big deal for them to come and figured because of their age they would not want to come."
"Ashley knows the majority of the family really well because I host birthday parties for all three kids as well as a 4th of July barbecue every year."
"My aunts and uncles rarely attend the events that I throw because it's hard for them to get around."
"I'll update after Caleb gets back to me about their talk."
Some Redditors didn't understand why eight people were a deal-breaker.
"Man, 100% NTA."
"If my parents paid for my wedding, I would let them invite whoever tf they wanted lol!"
"Honestly, for eight people, what difference does that make to the 300-400 already invited."
"Also, a house, education etc. all paid for. Wow! This son should be thanking his lucky stars he has you as a parent and be telling that to his soon-to-be wife."
"Jaysus, the amount of entitlement here is mind-blowing!"
"BTW -"
"Well done for achieving so much that you are able to set him and your family up in life."
"Most people don't have that and are thankful for the small things their parents can provide."
"You should be extremely proud of where you are."
"If your son or Ashley needs a wake-up call though, happy to bring them on a walk in Vancouver that will show a very different side of life." ~ Dukie29
The OP left us with one final update.
"Sorry it took so long for this, Caleb talked with Ashley, and then they came over for us to all have a sit down."
"Ashley apologized and said she didn't realize the significance of them."
"She was concerned because they are pretty old school and like calm/relaxed and didn't want them to have an issue with how they want their wedding."
"Her family is known for throwing huge bashes (think of the sweet 16 from the Bratz movie). They always go big and very flamboyant and eccentric."
"We throw large parties, but ours are more country bonfires; hamburgers/hot dogs, BBQ, lawn games, etc."
"Just wanted to say a lot of people are harping on the amount for the wedding."
"Yes, I am fully aware it's a lot of money. They live in a house that Ashley owns."
"When her grandparents passed away, they gave her one of their vacation homes which she sold, and bought the house she and Caleb currently live in, which is near the hospital they work at."
"Caleb owns a house that I gave to him as a graduation present that he rents out for additional income."
"They both own their cars, I paid for his education, and her parents paid for hers."
"They are debt free and have their ducks in a row."
"I donate a significant amount of money to various charities (Ronald McDonald House, make a wish, habitat for humanity, and St. Jude's)."
"I want my kids to get what I never had, my dad died from an OD when I was 16, and my mom passed away from cancer when I was 28."
"My dad bounced from job to job, and my mom worked three jobs just to support me and my brother to the best of her ability."
"My wedding was $4,000 and small because that's all I could afford at the time."
"I was planning on doing a bigger vowel renewal for our 10-year anniversary, but the car accident happened a year before then, and I felt so depressed at the time I did not want to go through with a big event."
"For people curious Food/drinks: $70,000 ($175 per person includes servers and bartenders)"
"Dj: $6,500 (includes a photo booth and light show)"
"Photographer: $9,000 (includes three photographers and a videographer)"
"Bridal party outfits/hair/makeup: $6,200"
"Venue: $10,000 (includes tables, chairs, setup, and cleanup)"
"Flowers: $5,000 Favors: $5,000 Decor: $8,500."
"Cake & cupcakes: $3500 Wedding planner: $4,500 Dress: $18,000 custom dress (she's purchasing a second dress with her own money)."
"Them getting engaged was no surprise. They have been talking about it for a while."
"I think Ashley is a wonderful girl, and up until now, there has never been anything that has been an issue."
"The reason she hasn't spent more time with my aunts/uncles is she has a very rigorous schedule because of the internship."
"She said she will make sure she spends more time with them before the wedding and gets to know them better."
"Also, yes she does know that many people, just her relatives are 180 people."
Involving money in any relationship can complicate the dynamics of the relationship.
We wish this happy couple and their generous mother-in-law well on the big day.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp