How common does common knowledge have to be in order for someone's anger at you not knowing it to be justified?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) NoNeedleworker8772 when they came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
She asked:
"AITA for allowing the police in my home?"
An innocent start.
"So over the summer my husband's son Jay stays with his mom."
"He's 16."
"He gets home and gets everything ready for school. I noticed his mom gave him a new gaming system and I don't say anything as he puts it in his room."
"It's not uncommon for his mom buy him things."
A sudden twist.
"The police show up at my house and ask to see both me and Jay."
"His dad is working."
"I let the police come in and they asked about his gaming system and I tell him sure them I saw him unpack it. Once Jay gets in the living room I'm told it's stolen."
"I freak out!"
"I yell at my Jay and the police arrest him and tell me I can come get him after the booking process it will take a few hours."
"I let them take my Jay and the gaming station! I was so overwhelmed with everything. I call my husband and he starts yelling at me because I let the police in the house and take Jay."
"I got an earful about it and my husband goes to the police station and it takes a long time for him to come home with Jay!"
"My husband sends Jay to his room and yells at me about how I let this happen."
"I should have not let them into the house and I shouldn't have told them Jay was home. I said why?"
"He acts like it was common sense and I should have found out more information. He calls me names like stupid and naive."
Escalation.
"The fight turns into me say how was I supposed to know how to act I was taught better to cover for a criminal."
"My husband said Jay is not a criminal. I pointed out he was literally just arrested for freaking stealing."
"My husband told me to get out."
"I'm staying with my sister and her husband right now because of this."
"They are in just as much shock as me because they would have never thought to be rude to the police either and not allow them in."
OP was left to wonder,
"AITA?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: YTA
Mistakes may have been made.
"INFO."
"Do you actually know if this gaming station was stolen?"
"Just because the police show up at your place and claim something was stolen doesn't make it so."
"Police will frequently ask people to do innocuous sounding things in order to get a pretext for a search/detainment."
'"They would have never thought to be rude to the police either and not allow them in'"
"This take is coming from a tower so ivory I cannot look at it directly without risking blindness."
"I just want to address some more things in the post. Your husband shouldn't have called you stupid."
"I agree with his take that you're naive or perhaps a victim of your own privilege. I'm not surprised the insults started flying. This is a stressful situation for all parties."
"Doesn't give him the right to insult you. He's an AH for that."
"Being arrested does not mean someone is guilty. Police saying someone is or has committed a crime does not mean they are or have committed a crime." ~ Asiatic_Static
"Just to be clear, Jay was ACCUSED of a crime, not convicted of one, so for you to assume he's a criminal automatically would bother me too if that were my son."
"Plus, you don't know the exact circumstances as to how the console was obtained."
"His mom could have brought it from a third party for all you know, so again, who are you to call a sixteen-year-old a criminal when you just made an assumption based on what the police told you?!"
"You failed Jay in a big way."
"Sorry, YTA!" ~ jabronimax969
"YTA"
"Never, never, never, NEVER, NEVER let the police into your house without a warrant. Never let the police talk to your minor child without you or a lawyer present."
"It may only be a 'simple misunderstanding'. The chances of the cops being 'crooked' or 'planting' something to make a case may be slim,..."
"But if that slim occurrence should happen and the police decide to ruin your day, you can lose everything you own to civil forfeiture, and your entire reality can come crashing down because you were trying not to be rude."
"The police are not your friends."
"You can be civil, but DO NOT let them in the door because no matter how nice you are, YOU are still considered a possible perp..." ~ Ren_Arcen
The benefit of the doubt.
"It's not remotely common knowledge; that's why every criminal lawyer will repeatedly emphasize to all their clients 'DON'T SAY ANYTHING TO THE POLICE unless I'm with you"'.
"It's common knowledge among certain subcultures but not in the general population."
"If you follow any criminal lawyers on social media, you will also, from time to time, see them venting about their clients' insistence on speaking to the police even after the client has been warned not to by the lawyer."
"If you've ever been in a situation where you would find it totally unremarkable to hear someone say 'f**k the police' or 'all cops are bastards', it's important, as a reality check for yourself, to remember that most people love the police and think they're wonderful." ~ superiority
"The average person is going to be innocent, and I can see people wanting to be honest because 'I've nothing to hide'".
"Which inevitably causes problems cause they reveal info that was never requested of them."
"People should question the likes of cop shows FAR more often because, in 99.9% of cop shows, there is blatant police propaganda being shown."
"Usually the criminal asks for a lawyer, and they are super in your face about how bad and shady it is for a person to request a lawyer."
"Those shows have permeated the public consciousness. People think as long as they talk and are honest, the police will let them go. They don't wanna be the 'bad guy' with a lawyer." ~ keichunyan
"Victim of her own privilege?"
"She wasn't the one with a stolen video game in possession (allegedly)."
"You make it sound like someone that clearly has had very limited interaction with police (and likely none on the wrong side of the law) is somehow a 'victim of her own privilege'"?
"Sounds to me like she leads a law-abiding life."
"I guess if that makes her a victim of her own privilege up in an ivory tower, maybe I've been teaching my kids the wrong things." ~ Party-Psychology3126
Complex Relations.
"Allow me to point you to Google to find out why people in the US do not trust law enforcement."
"He would have always been held accountable as the police could pursue a warrant based on whatever evidence compelled them to go to the house in the first place."
"Our justice system allows people to refuse police entry without a warrant as a right in this situation."
"And it's not bad or wrong to insist that they go through with obtaining a warrant as is their job."
"And it's not bad or wrong to refuse a police interview for yourself or someone's minor child when you are overwhelmed and not thinking clearly."
"That's exactly when you call a lawyer."
"They will tell you if it makes sense to voluntarily surrender or show up for an interview without an arrest."
"Are you a child or law enforcement officer or just painfully unaware of how the justice system actually operates in the US?" ~ MoMoJangles
"If the police don't have a warrant, they don't get to search the house, and if they do it anyway, any evidence they find is inadmissible in court."
"So yes, not allowing the police in would have been a much better idea."
"Allowing the police in without a warrant gives them the idea that they don't need to get warrants, which is a problem for our entire justice system." ~ 2022F**kPutin
"NAH, but you should have known better."
"You never let the cops into your home without a warrant. You figure out what they want, don't tell them anything, and get a lawyer if necessary."
"You don't even know if the gaming system was actually stolen. You don't know if he bought it from a friend who stole it, if his mom stole it, if he found it, etc."
"The cops could be wrong, and now your stepson was arrested because you weren't cautious. Hopefully, that's a lesson learned."
"If anything, YTA only because you turned it into an argument with your husband about how your stepson is a criminal."
"Your husband was obviously scared, stressed, didn't know what was happening to his son and why."
"He also trusted you to take care of him, and you had a minor in your care."
"You don't let anyone in the house that doesn't have a good reason for being there, even the cops. It seems you have a skewed perspective on your stepson, which is unfortunate." ~ sxl1092
Would I have handled this situation the way OP did?
We wish the OP and their family well as they resolve the situation with the proper authorities.
When in doubt, ask for a lawyer.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp