Discipline can take many forms.
There seem to be clear right ways and wrong ways though.
All children learn in different ways.
And all parents discipline in their own manner... which can different greatly.
When parents aren't on the same page about methods, everything can lead to chaos.
Case in point...
Redditor ExplanationCalm2060 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for not agreeing with my wife's form of a lesson to our daughter?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"This is a bit tame considering this page but I have to ask."
"it all started over dinner when my wife decided to grab a soda from the fridge."
"My wife saw my 5-year-old daughter eyeing the soda with interest and offered her some with a warning that it was 'spicy.'"
"My daughter took a sip of the soda and had a look of uncertainty."
"My wife then asks 'Did you like it?'"
"My daughter says 'yes' with an uncertain look and continued."
"'So finish it,' my wife says as my daughter refuses."
"My wife follows up with 'Ah... because you didn't like it.'"
"My daughter replies with 'No, I do like it, Mom. I just don't want anymore.'"
"'So finish it.'"
"Daughter finishes the drink and goes 'That was yummy mom.'"
"This goes on for another 5 minutes of back and forth with my wife trying to get my daughter to admit that she does not like the soda."
"I sit there enjoying the back-and-forth banter as it all seems playful."
"Suddenly, my wife tells my daughter 'No toys, no games, no tablets for lying.'"
"My daughter visibly confused and sad says 'Okay Mom I just didn't like it because it was too bubbly.'"
"Wife says 'Too late, nothing for the rest of the night. Get ready for bed.'"
"I sat there in confusion due to the playful nature suddenly becoming a lesson about lying."
"I mentioned that our daughter just wanted to impress her by drinking an 'adult' drink and it wasn't about deceiving her."
"I was then accused of just allowing my daughter to walk all over us and play us like we're idiots."
"My wife had made up her mind that my 5-year-old daughter is a pathological liar because of this and gives other light lying examples children do regularly."
"Like, That wasn't me who knocked that over, I don't remember you saying that when I was big... etc."
"I mentioned that she set my daughter up and it wasn't taken kindly."
"She then began putting down my abilities as a parent and to just wait when she's a teenager and lies about much more serious things and she's gonna get away with it because I don't question her."
"I felt like this was blown way out of proportion, and she stormed out into our office as she said, 'I guess I'm the only parent here! Keep letting her slide. You'll see!'"
The OP was left to wonder:
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. Setting kids up with manipulative questions like that is a surefire way for them to develop anxiety when they get older."
"'Do I really feel this way?'"
"'Am I just lying to myself?'"
"'I should just stick with what I know I like.'"
"This type of parenting is going to make her a nervous wreck who can't trust her own judgment." ~ Lackluster79
"It's also gonna ensure their daughter gets much, much better about lying and potentially not confiding in them about much more serious matters." ~ perpetuallyxhausted
"It's also teaching her she can't trust her mother."
"To me, that's the absolute worst thing about this kind of parenting."
"It's a wicked witch-type of parenting which only ensures you screw up your kid and don't have a relationship with her later in life."
"Mom has some serious issues she should get therapy for before screwing up her kids."
"Who needs to outsmart a 5-year-old to feel better about themselves??" ~ bojenny
"I'm a developmental psychologist, and my main research area is adolescent/parent communication."
"The number one reason teens lie to their parents is that they don't trust their parents, and trusting relationships are built from early childhood."
"So if this mom is so concerned about what's going to happen when their daughter is a teenager she needs to rethink her parenting strategies." ~ jbobbenson27
"Forcing somebody, let alone a 5-year-old, to drink what they don't like and then punishing them for not outrightly expressing their likes/dislikes is way overboard."
"There are a lot of adult people who cannot properly state their likes/dislikes and change their mind."
"The Mother needs her head examined." ~ abstractengineer2000
"Right? The poor kid probably liked the flavor but didn't enjoy the sensation of the carbonation and didn't know how to express that, especially with her mom pressuring her for a response." ~ BadKittyVortex
"Yes! That kid did everything right."
"She was brave enough to try something new, wasn't too sure how she felt about it, and answered with politeness while still asserting her own boundaries."
"I'd be proud to have such a kid!" ~ Zoenne
"Exactly this! Honestly, I have 5-year-old twins, and it's a miracle when the boy tries something new."
"OP has a great little girl, but to me, the mother's behavior almost borders on abuse."
"It's definitely manipulation."
"All it will do is teach the girl to lie better and be distant from her mother."
"Hopefully, OP can keep a better relationship with her." ~ Ritocas3
"I like baked onions, made myself one, and offered my five-year-old some."
"He tried a piece, gave me a thumbs up, said it's good, and declined more (little dude just had dinner himself)."
"According to OP's wife, I should have forced him to eat my entire onion and then punished him for not giving me an essay on the nuances of the onion to avoid raising a pathological liar 🙄."
"I'm also dying to know what soda was described as 'spicy.'"
"My children are weird and like spicy chips, but I'd never force them to eat a whole bag of them."
"This is some kind of warped power play with a literal baby." ~ SleeplessTaxidermist
"That is abuse."
"I wonder how else she abuses the daughter when OP isn't around, or how often OP thinks his wife is just being playful."
"OP, Wake the f**k up."
"Your wife is an awful parent and you too for letting that go on without stopping it."
"You let your wife pester your daughter, then suddenly your wife punishes her for literally nothing, and what's really telling is your daughter trying to calm your wife down by saying it was too bubbly."
"Also, your wife forcing your daughter to drink it all when only a sip to try it is perfectly reasonable…"
"It says a lot about you that you enjoyed that sh*t while your daughter was clearly uncomfortable."
"And you just stood there and watched it all play out."
"You're complicit in the abuse now."
"Your daughter seemed sad and quiet?"
"Yeah, that tells me this isn't the first time your daughter has been abused."
"I mean, your wife is right about one thing: you definitely aren't a good parent, either. You two need to get your s**t together for that little girl."
"You need to go to individual, couples, and family counseling bc the dynamics are all messed up in all the relationships here."
"Also, your wife is only teaching her to lie about everything, to not speak her mind, TO NOT BE TRUSTED."
"Who will that little girl go to if she's being bullied or worse? Not you two."
"After thinking on this, ESH, except for your daughter."
"You don't get points for telling your wife the punishment was unfair when you stood by and watched the abuse happen, making you complicit in it as well. Do better." ~ citrushibiscus
"OP. For the love of God, please listen to these people."
"As an adult, I am on the other end of this and started stressing out with flashbacks just reading this."
"My mother did this all the time, and I learned very quickly that there was no right answer."
"If she got in one of her 'moods,' I was going to be in trouble no matter what I did. if she couldn't get me to respond 'wrong,' then she would make something up and get my father to punish me."
"Didn't matter if I told Him what had happened, 'cause I was a pathological liar."
"Finally escalated on the day she started taking a swing at me when I decided to stand up for myself."
"I blocked her so she didn't connect."
"She told my father that I hit her and he threw me out."
"Honestly… best day of my life."
"I actually felt a huge sense of relief."
"The bottom line is that this will continue to be worse as your child grows."
"You need to stop enabling her now!" ~ WeeklyReport3628
"NTA. WTF? That's a pretty extreme overreaction on her part."
"Besides, it sounded less like your daughter was lying and more like she was just trying to be polite."
"It's silly of your wife to get so upset over this." ~ IllustriousBad577
"NTA, your wife is manipulative, trapped her kid, and abused her mentally." ~ Lost-Moskito
Well, OP, Reddit is with you here.
This sounds more like gaslighting and less like teaching a lesson.
It also feels like you and your wife may need to have a long chat about punishment and discipline.
Having miscommunication like this could lead to a lot of turmoil in the future.
Hopefully, you can all sit down and talk through this.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp