Content Warning: Loss of a loved one, grief.
It's wonderful to imagine beautiful, happy families who celebrate together, grieve together, and express unconditional love.
But sometimes it doesn't work out that way, sadly agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
When Redditor Confusedguy1992i's best friend came out to her conservative parents as bisexual, they were quick to kick her out of their home before the age of 18 and disown her completely.
The Original Poster (OP) later received the terrible news that his friend had passed away, only for her parents to accuse him of withholding important information from them.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for not telling my friend's parents she died?"
The OP stayed close to his best friend after she was kicked out by her parents.
"I (22 Male) had a childhood best friend, Luna (23 Female). We were very close. She lived across the street from me, and we even went to the same school."
"I loved her so much, and she was honestly there for me in times when no one else was, and she was the sister I never had."
"Luna was raised in a strict Christian household, and her parents are very religious."
"Luna came out to them as bisexual when she was 17, and they kicked her out and told her never to come back."
"Luna lived with my family and me for a year, and when she turned 18, she started working her a** off with various jobs."
The pair remained close friends through all the changes.
"Because her parents disowned her, her next of kin became her aunt (her mother's sister). Her aunt isn't close to the family, either, and had her own issues with them, so she was basically on a low-contact, no-contact basis with all of them."
"I was there for her, and I know what she felt and how alone and betrayed she felt by her family."
"I still get mad when I remember how exhausted she looked at that time."
"She used to live in a tiny studio apartment and did her best, but she sadly couldn't afford to go to college, so she had no other choice than working as a stripper and a McDonald's cashier."
Then the OP received the worst news possible.
"Two months ago, I received the devastating news from Luna's aunt that Luna had died from reasons I am not comfortable sharing."
"I was and still am very sad, and I feel like a part of me is gone."
"Her funeral was paid for by me and our friend group, and it was a small funeral and small attendance (her friends and their parents, plus mine)."
"No one reached out to her parents, including Luna's aunt, because they hadn't contacted her or asked about her since the day they kicked her out."
But one day, the OP received a surprising call.
"Last week, her parents called me and asked me about Luna."
"I asked them why they were asking about her all of a sudden."
"They told me they had been thinking about her for the past three months and missed their daughter dearly. They told me they learned a lot about the LGBTQ+ community and were hoping to apologize and reconcile with her but couldn't find her number."
"That's when I told them she had died."
"They didn't believe me at first, and then that turned into anger. They yelled at me and told me how selfish it was for no one to tell them their own daughter had died."
"They said if I had bothered to tell them, they would've been there at her funeral and helped with the preparations, and maybe they even could've prevented her death."
The OP was conflicted and wondered if he should have done more.
"I heard that her dad went into a depressive episode after that, and her mom is on the verge of a mental breakdown."
"I know that they kicked her out, but a part of me still feels like it was wrong of me not to tell them about her passing. She was still their daughter, and maybe I owed them that, I don't know."
"I want an unbiased point of view. Should I have told them? Or was not knowing the consequence of their actions?"
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some argued that parents, no matter the circumstances, should be informed of this news.
"YTA. Are you people serious?? Every parent has the right to know that their child died. Not even letting them go to her funeral? What the actual f**k gives you the right to withhold that?" - fckmsshrd
"YTA. Regardless of what happened when your friend was alive, someone should have passed on the news of her passing. It's that simple. If the parents still wanted nothing to do with her and the funeral, then that's on them, but at least they would have been informed." - No_One_Special_023
"YTA. As a parent, I could never understand disowning your child. But these people raised this person. They made her, grew her for nine months, birthed her, and were there for every major milestone of her young life."
"YES, they were completely misguided and blinded by their awful religious bigotry, but I would absolutely have told them. She was their baby. I mean, I couldn't ever find peace with myself if I made the choice you did. The heartbreak they must have felt for years turning out to be even more devastating than they ever dreamed." - Kab1212
"YTA."
"Before all the pitchforks come out, I agree with almost everyone here so far. Yes, they threw her out, and it led to her having a troubled life. Unkind as it sounds, they are not responsible for her choices or her death, and she was still their child. It was not your place to put your thumb on the scale after the fact and deny them this news."
"You chose to forgo compassion to satisfy a grudge on behalf of your friend. The audacity of you to willingly keep her kin in the dark about her death. Shame on you." - AukwardOtter
"YTA!! Jesus. It's the least anyone can do in this situation. If you were in their situation, would you not want to be at least notified?"
"The consequences of their actions might have been not being invited to her wedding or the fact that they missed out on the last years of her life."
"But now they're thinking that had they not kicked her out, they may have prevented her death. Not telling them is just cruel." - navigatorlost123
But others felt that the parents weren't entitled to this information.
"NTA. I cannot imagine being a parent, and disowning my daughter because of her sexuality. They were never good people to begin with."
"They are only attacking you because you are the only target they can 'justify', because otherwise, they would have to reflect on their thoughts and actions, and no one likes looking in a mirror when they are ugly (on the inside)."
"I have an eight-year-old girl. I would willingly sacrifice this entire planet if it meant to keep her safe. Those 'people' f**king disgust me." - Captain_Blackbird
"NTA. They are the ones that closed that relationship and line of communication. They are the ones who made that horrible decision. This is entirely the consequences of their actions." - Dragon2439
"They kicked her out at seventeen... and didn't even care to search her for five years. She was still a child, thrown from a safe environment to the street. I am too angry and disgusted to have any sympathy for them."
"NTA. She deserved better. Sorry about your loss, OP." - Justanothersaul
"I imagine the shock of finding out their daughter had died triggered a 'shoot the messenger' reaction. They couldn't possibly take responsibility themselves (sarcastic comment)."
"I'm sorry you lost your childhood friend. Sure, you might have told them, but are you the a**hole because you didn't? I don't think so."
"It's one of those situations where they made their wishes known, kicked their own child out into the world due to their own bigoted opinions, and let her suffer for, what, five years before they reached out? This is sadly something they are going to have to learn to live with."
"NTA." - CaliforniaJade
"NTA."
"They were not listed as next of kin anywhere, or they would have been notified. They lost the right to be notified by her friends when they abandoned her as a child. They were no longer her parents."
"She had obviously moved on, and you nor her true friends owed them anything. They can live with their guilt as they ARE guilty." - Odd-End-1405
Others also reassured the OP that he shouldn't have been the one to tell them anyway.
"NTA. It was not your place to be in contact with them. They had years to reach out, and by the time they did, it was too late."
"Sorry for your loss, but this is not on you." - HeirOfRavenclaw
"If anyone should have contacted her parents, it should have been her aunt... her being actually related to them. She decided not to... probably for the same reasons that OP didn't. Her parents had disowned her and removed her from their lives."
"OP, you did nothing wrong. NTA." - canuckleheadiam
"NTA. If you had told them before the funeral, it is possible that they would have taken over and turned it into something she would find disrespectful to her."
"Your only obligation was to your friend, and you went above and beyond for her. NTA again, and sorry for your loss." - Mammoth_Piglet_3063
"Notification was at the aunt's discretion, and yes, you were the immediate target at hand to absorb all of their shock and regret."
"NTA, good for you for sticking by your friend's side, and sorry for your loss." - Status_Soft4191
"Luna's parents were owed what they earned. By kicking her out and never initiating contact, they earned the right to have no contact with Luna."
"You happened to get the call, so you're an easy target for them to deflect their responsibility, but literally nobody told Luna's parents about her death. Nobody. Everybody who was actually there for her in life was there for her in death. Her parents don't get to make up for years of s**tty behavior by swooping in at her funeral and putting on a show."
"NTA. They will forever live with the knowledge that their daughter died knowing they hated who she was, but they didn't get a chance to fix that because they didn't make the effort to fix it. None of that is your fault for not telling them she had died." - baka-tari
"NTA. I think in alternative circumstances, you would be the a**hole... But they threw her away. Like trash. Do people expect refuse collectors to tell them what happened to the used tissues they threw out?"
"I realize it would have been more compassionate to inform them, but that also wasn't your responsibility. It was Luna's aunt's, above anyone else's."
"I'm glad to hear they're learning to be less ignorant, but they're learning hard lessons about the results of their own ignorance. I'm hoping their plea was genuine so they experience growth as human beings and are not just going to use the death of the child they threw away for attention."
"I'm sorry for your loss, love." - ThisIsTheCaptain
As tragic of a situation as this was, one might argue that when a parent decides to disown their child and become estranged from them, they become estranged from all aspects of their child's life, including the end of it.
While it might be kind to let the parents know of their child's passing, most of the subReddit agreed this was no longer information they were entitled to receive, and even if they were, only the next of kin would be responsible for sharing it.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp