Content Warning: Discussions of Depression, Therapy, and Chronic Illness
We've surely all gone through some tough phases in our lives, some including issues with work, money, health, or love.
But sometimes when we look back at the memories of these tough times, we have to admit that we were part of the problem, if not the entire problem, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Throwawaymals was still angry about her divorce that had taken place seven years prior, and now that her alimony checks were running out, she was angry with how her ex-husband seemed to be moving on.
When he critiqued how she felt about him and how she was portraying him to their children, the Original Poster (OP) couldn't believe his attitude.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for showing 'everybody' what my ex wrote on his final check to me?"
The OP was still angry about her divorce.
"I (51 Female) divorced my ex-husband (53 Male) seven years ago. We were married for 14 years and had three kids together (24 Male, 22 Female, and 18 Female)."
"I was a SAHM (Stay-at-Home Mom) and I suffered from constipation that, while doctors say isn't definitely IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome), has made me suffer from joint and back pain when I eat things like dairy or any of my other food sensitivities."
"We live in New Jersey and the judge made it so that child support and alimony would both end at the same time."
I had a lot of issues in my marriage, but at the very least, I have three great kids that I love and who love me."
The OP had a lot of hard feelings toward her ex-husband.
"My ex has been very bitter, saying I should have wanted counseling even though I was completely neurotypical and it was him suffering from depression."
"He also discredited my want to divorce by saying I was acting out of emotion and asked me to take a step back and think, as if I haven't been thinking before."
"He was always working 12-hour days and overtime, and I was the one taking care of and giving the kids what they needed."
Fortunately, the OP's children were thriving.
"My son now has graduated college and is a genius. He has his own app development company and makes more than my ex and I could ever dream of making in a year."
"My 22-year-old daughter has a degree in nursing and is marrying and her fiance comes from money so she's set as well."
"My 18-year-old has done well in school, too."
The OP wasn't doing quite so well.
"However, as for me, I've been suffering from menopause and back aches and a lot of the entry-level jobs that would hire me would leave me in pain and exhausted. That hasn't stopped my ex from griping and dismissing my real pains."
"Long story short, he sent me my last child support and alimony check. In the memo of the alimony check, he wrote, 'Freedom, good luck then.'"
"It was such a mockery to the health issues I've suffered and all I've put into the family."
The note on the alimony check quickly spread among the family.
"I showed my friends and they agreed he's still a blunt, daft individual."
"My 18-year-old was there and she said she couldn't believe he thought that way of her."
"Then my older kids found out through screenshots, and because of my health issues, my son has been sending me 3,000 dollars a month while my ex sends me $2.5k, plus what's needed for our youngest daughter."
"He spent a lot of his childhood with unmarried parents and resents the fact my ex proposed to his girlfriend (48 Female) after only two years of dating. He called his dad a b**tard and said he and my 22-year-old would always help me out."
"He had been saying he would just make up what I'd lose from my ex because he could afford $5.5k, but he told me my ex had been telling him to save his money and only send me under $2k."
"My ex is now backtracking and saying he only wrote it on 'my' check, but the kids are not amused."
"He invited them to his wedding but my 22-year-old said she might be better off just focusing on her own wedding, and that she'd help me out too if I needed it."
"AITA for blasting him when he clearly wrote it to be seen? He's always painted me as the greedy ex, it seems."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some called the OP the AH for her comments about mental health and marriage counseling.
"YTA."
"There were problems in the marriage. He suggested counseling. You refused because 'you are neurotypical and he's depressed.'"
"Holy s**t. He wanted to save the marriage. You said it was his fault. You refused to go to counseling."
"Dude is 53, working 12-hour days, and sending you $30,000 per year… for what? You can't get a job because of constipation? How the h**l did you convince a judge he should pay you for seven years?"
"You're definitely the a**hole here. Now you're going to mooch off your kids."
"The sense of entitlement is unreal." - The-Francois8
"I'm confused by the insinuation that only neurodivergent individuals can benefit from therapy? Anyone, neurotypical or neurodivergent aside, can benefit from therapy. Reading your post, it sounds like you would fall into that category. YTA." - 14ccet1
"Furthermore, she said her ex had depression, and that counseling offer was probably as much to help him as her. Dude was working 12 hours a day and depressed and still wanted to make time to actively fix their problems. She's complaining about him mocking her physical health issues while actively dismissing his mental health issues." - Reverend_Lazerface
"Mental health professional here, and it literally hurt me from cringing so hard when I read the neurodivergent part. I don't think OP really knows what the world means and equates chemical imbalances and things like trauma to being neurodivergent... which, OP, this is not what it means and you should discontinue using that word until you understand it. YTA." - Witchywoman4201
"The way OP also brushed past the divorce reasoning. "He was depressed" and they were just neurotypical. Asking for counseling and taking a step back before proceeding with divorce. Working 12-hour days to support the family."
"OP can do whatever they want but it sounds like the ex was trying to find something to help save the marriage and OP just wanted a pity party. OP is the AH. Ex maybe snarky since divorce but I don't blame them." - softstones
Others agreed and sympathized with the ex-husband's alimony note.
"Why are her kids supporting her financially when she's constipated? I'm so confused. This guy seems to be behaving like any tired ex-spouse would. I'm ready to divorce her, too, after reading that crazy post." - ireaditonreddit_kara
"1. You showed the cheque to your children, so YOU want it to be seen."
"2. Your husband was referring to his freedom to pay. Not great but I don't think he was referring to your health."
"3. Your kids are giving you a LOT of money each month. Lucky you. You knew this day was coming, but you don't seem to have prepared."
"I'm glad your children are turning out successful. I'm sorry for your pain. It does sound like you are helping to turn your kids against their father (and a 53-year-old man dating a 48-year-old woman five years after a separation is not shocking). You wanted the divorce, so glad he moved on."
"Ultimately, YTA for how you are turning your kids against their dad when he comes across as reasonable." - AgentRevolutionary99
"How does one take the words, 'Freedom, good luck then' to translate to 'a mockery to the health issues I've suffered and all I've put into the family'? How does marrying someone new after two years of dating make him a 'b**tard' in the eyes of his son? What does being neurotypical have to do with a request for counseling?" - 3_hit_wonder
"What he wrote wasn't even bad! Of course the guy doesn't want to keep paying alimony to an ex who clearly hates him. Regardless of if he was a d**k or not when they were married, OF COURSE, he doesn't want to keep sending her money. 'Freedom, good luck then' is a perfectly understandable statement to say in the situation." - JelmerMcGee
Some felt that the OP simply did not want to work or take responsibility for her actions.
"The money her kids are giving her to support only herself is equivalent to my gross income on which I support myself, my girlfriend (who has serious mental health issues and still manages to work more than OP, but still not much), and I am renovating a house. And that isn't even taking into account that she might not be paying taxes on it and I am."
"That kind of makes it hard to sympathize with her even if the entitlement vibe wasn't so strong." - RutzButtercup
"..........You take how much money from your KIDS?? Are you sure you're not greedy??? Get a job, lady." - CartographerGlass85
"She super brushed passed the 'worked 12-hour days and overtime.' I just finished a 12-day week with 12 hours a day, and let me tell you, that isn't just draining; it literally made me feel like I was dying. I get she has constipation and 'neurotypical' (haha), but the fact that he was mentioning counseling shows he's got a lot more patience than a lot of people."
"OP: YTA you did what no one should do, air dirty laundry to your children. As an outsider, that only reads one way: you want your kids to hate their father. All of this is over him saying he got his financial freedom back. I know you won't but you should feel ashamed of yourself." - ChaseNBread
"YTA for sure. Your husband worked himself into depression to make sure you and his children were taken care of. Your response was to divorce him rather than support him. Now, since you have no skills outside of whining about money, you need to mooch off of your children."
"You had a hardworking husband who gave all he had, and now he seems to have found someone who appreciates that. I hope he's found happiness, and I hope you learn from your mistakes."
"At your age, you're about to find out the men who can take care of you are being taken care of by younger, more attractive women." - chevelle71
Though the OP clearly came to the subreddit expecting sympathy, the subreddit was not ready to deliver. Rather, they took issue with how she spoke about her ex-husband's mental health, as well as her lack of appreciation for the many hours of hard work he'd put in, during and after their marriage, to care for her and her children.
Since they'd divorced seven years prior, it seemed the OP should have been able to find some kind of work that suited her by now, even if it was a simple part-time work-from-home job that could be completed from the couch.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp