While parents may not like to think about it, their kids are going to grow up sometime and, in the vast majority of cases, will also move out of their house.
Some parents handle this truth better than others, especially when something serves as a stark reminder that their child has grown up, like their "little girl" buying her first house, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor CalendarDad was impressed with his college-age son when he came home with a calendar that he participated in making, which funded his rowing team and also donated to charity.
But when his wife found out what was really in that calendar, the Original Poster (OP) wasn't sure how to appease both of them.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for 'devastating' my wife over our son's nude calendar?"
The OP's son recently participated in his rowing team's calendar photoshoot.
"So my (45 Male) son Cole is a freshman college athlete, getting a jump on training."
"Apparently, there is a British college rowing team that puts out a +beefcake+ nude calendar of their team as a fundraiser. Apparently, it has become quite a thing and is relatively famous."
"I guess the boys got together and decided to do the same thing. High-quality printing and absolutely A+ photography, and came up with a really slick product."
"It is selling well on campus, and at this point, it's going to be on pretty much every girl's dorm wall (and some guys' walls as well)."
"They've made decent money to help fund the team, but MOST donated to a children's cancer charity, which is pretty amazing."
The OP's wife was not equally enthused about the project.
"We didn't know anything about this until Cole came home and proudly presented us with a copy (his month is May)."
"It did not go well. His mother almost had a stroke. Wailing. Hyperventilating. Weeping."
"Apparently, she is too 'mortified for words' to comprehend that a bunch of college girls are going to have a picture of 'her baby' in the buff on their walls for one month. And 'What will her friends think?'"
The OP didn't agree with his wife's concerns.
"I think it's ridiculous. A calendar of naked guys is nothing to get worked up over. They're all technically adults, and I'm proud of the boys' ingenuity and confidence. I'm sure it took some balls to do that (figuratively, not only literally). And to give the money to charity... is amazing."
"I told my wife that she should lighten up, that if I looked as good as he did at that age and had been as handsome and tan and fit, I would have done it too."
"Also, the calendar is NOT X-rated and is NOT porn. Okay, it's pretty d**n racy and is definitely pushing the limits, but no one's 'business' is really exposed thanks to judicious poses and props and such, although they are definitely pushing that 'exposure' to the absolute max."
"I have to admit, if anything were shifted the tiniest bit, you'd be able to tell the boys' religion, so to speak, but they kept it all legal enough... and they obviously WANT it to sell. Fine. Who cares."
The OP's wife wanted him to do something to rectify the situation.
"His mom, though, is insisting that I 'do something about it.'"
"But what am I supposed to do? What's done is done."
"'Stop them!'"
"You can't stop what has already finished."
"'Get them back!'"
"...Seriously? You know that's impossible, right?"
"'Punish him!'"
"For what? How?"
"Cue more hysterics. And now she's not even speaking with me for not supporting her, and she's 'ashamed to show her face' to her friends, who I'm sure couldn't care less about some college boys' pictures from 600 miles away."
The OP wasn't sure what else there was to do.
"And for what it's worth, Cole's girlfriend is totally on board with it."
"My wife called me an a**hole (but not in those words) for not taking her side."
"Am I really the a**hole here? Perhaps I am the a**hole for not seeing things from my wife's point of view and not sympathizing with her."
"But I don't think I am."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some thought the OP's wife was taking away from her son's moment with her hysterics.
"You are NTA. Your adult son is NTA. Your son's supportive girlfriend is NTA."
"Unfortunately, even after your wife removes the stick up her rear she'll still be an A/H for the ridiculous, over-the-top histrionics. It's fine to be uncomfortable with what your adult son did. the wailing/sobbing/dramatics, though, are counterproductive and annoying." - Bear_Aspirin_00
"Your son sounds wonderful. I'd be very proud of mine if he did the same thing (once he's a few years older of course). They came up with a great idea, saw it through to the end, and raised money for an important charity. An excellent practical lesson in entrepreneurship, product development, and marketing."
"NTA. Your wife needs to stop having hysterics and shaming Cole for this."
"If she'd told you quietly that she was horrified and embarrassed, then you should have been supportive. But the screaming, crying, and demands that he should be punished, I have no sympathy whatsoever." - Moose-Live
"NTA. So here's the deal... In order for your wife's friends to know about it, they'd have to buy the said calendar. AKA: They wanted to see semi-nude young men."
"What are they gonna do? Call her/text her and tell her she should be ashamed of him all while knowing they spent money on an item containing photos of semi-nude men half their age?"
"It's like someone calling their friend and telling them that their daughter has an Only Friends page and passing judgment... The only way you'd know is if YOU visited the site..."
"As for your wife's feelings. She's welcome to her opinion and feelings. But she crosses the AH line the minute she even implies that you should automatically side with her simply because you're married. That's bulls**t and it needs to stop."
"Just because you marry someone doesn't mean you're signing up to always agree with them and side with them on everything. There are going to be times when you're wrong, or she's wrong. This is a perfect example. She's in the wrong, and you would be too if you tried to stop the calendar from being sold or tried to 'punish' your adult son." - SigSauerPower320
"NTA."
"But it's time to give your wife a little perspective on your son's actions. He's a college student that participates in sports and was part of an effort to raise money for their team and sick children. He seems to be succeeding with all of that and also has a social life since he has a girlfriend."
"Let's talk about what he's not. He's not a criminal. He's not a drug addict. He doesn't seem to suffer from mental illness. He doesn't think only about himself or he wouldn't be helping to raise money for sick children."
"Your wife needs to be thankful for the son she has. Many people aren't that lucky." - MaryAnne0601
"The wife may not agree with her son's decision but there are better ways of handling it than having a meltdown."
"I think that OP and his son are NTA. It was done for a good cause. Even if it weren't for charity, it is still nobody's business what an adult does with their own body." - SweatyCaterpillar979
"NTA. She doesn't have to approve of the calendar. If she doesn't want to see the pictures, that's totally understandable. But insisting that you try to stop the calendar from being published and trying to get you to punish him is totally unreasonable and ridiculous." - DisneyFoodie20
But others encouraged the OP to be empathetic to his wife's feelings as an empty-nester.
"YTA. You're clearly a proud dad right now, and that's... great, but let's think about it from your wife's perspective for a bit."
"How would you feel if you had a daughter on the college volleyball or soccer team and she posted similarly racy photos along with her teammates and she proudly brought over the calendar to your home?"
"How about if every guy across her college had that calendar with her showing her racy pics? Would you still feel comfortable? Imagine you going to lunch with your daughter, and you see the stares of looks she gets."
"That's what your wife is feeling when she sees racy pics of her son." - canttouchthisJC
"YTA for the obvious contempt that you have for your wife's feelings."
"I agree with you that a nude calendar isn't a big deal, but even the way you wrote this post, knowing that people are going to judge you, you still marginalized her and are supercritical."
"Stop being a jerk to your wife." - hbgbees
"This is one of the most disgusting posts I've seen. Of course YTA. Your son did a horrible thing, and your wife is right." - Hateful-Love-05
"YTA and weirdly happy about your son posing nude. Gross." - IslandAshamed9016
"YTA. I bet you wouldn't be okay about it if it was a daughter." - InfiniteDate4429
"A little bit YTA. She just lost her baby at home. He's at college. She's having an emotional reaction to him being on his own."
"You could have shown some empathy. I agree with all your points as to why it's a good thing, but the point here is not the calendar but your s**tty treatment of your wife." - V_Mrs_R43
"Oh... yuck. I really don't believe this is on all the girls' walls. Your poor wife, I'm sure she wishes she could rinse her eyes out with bleach."
"Yes, YTA, for being so inconsiderate of her feelings. That is her baby, and this is going to have repercussions when he gets older. As other commenters have stated, I'm sure you would not have said this if you had a daughter and she wanted to do a nude photoshoot spread 'for charity.'" - Ok-Border4341
This nude calendar for charity situation had the subReddit just as divided on the situation as the OP and his wife were.
Some completely understood where the OP was coming from and even thought that maybe his wife was trying to make her son's moment, hard work, and efforts toward charity about her.
But others thought the wife might have been struggling with her son going off to college, and this was a serious reminder that he was growing up, for which the OP might show a little more empathy.
Either way, their son was out in the world on his own now, and the couple needed to figure out how to live together and support one another as a couple again, or else someone might wind up being unhappy.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp