CW: Suicide.
Redditor GlitteringMud9950 is going to become a grandmother, but she's currently still trying to parent her adult child.
The Original Poster (OP) has been trying to get her pregnant daughter to step up, but is constantly faced with tantrums in response.
This confusing situation ultimately led the OP to subReddit 'Am I the A**hole?" (AITA).
She asked:
"AITA for wanting my pregnant daughter to do something with her life and not rely on me?"
She went on to explain.
"My [40-year-old female], daughter, [22-year-old female], Rita is pregnant, she's almost 20 weeks and she just told me a few days ago."
"Rita moved back in with me and my husband (her stepdad) when the place she was renting with her [boyfriend 22-year-old male], and a former roommate fell through."
"Rita and her bf are still together and decided to keep the baby. The bf lives about an hour and a half away."
"Anyhow, Rita does absolutely nothing. She doesn't work or go to school. She'll watch TV until 5-6am then sleep until 1-2pm most days."
"Only cleans her room when I tell her to. Doesn't wash dishes or her laundry, nor does she take out the trash."
"When I try to talk to her she starts crying and screaming that I hate her and I'm trying to stress her out and she can't deal with it."
"(My other young adult kid is in college full time and works part time. They were raised with the same rules and expectations.)"
"I tried telling Rita she's having a baby soon and she needs to grow up. Cue more crying and screaming. She literally throws herself on the floor and sobs."
"That she needs to get her act together to take care of the baby and try to be a decent parent. That the baby is hers, not mine and her and her bf responsibility to raise and provide for."
"That she needs to go to school or work or both and apply for daycare vouchers and any assistance she can. That she needs to pull her head out of the sand and actually do something with her life."
"(I had kids young, but I also went to school part time for several years to achieve my goals.)"
"These conversations always end with Rita on the floor, crying, screaming and basically throwing a tantrum. The only time she does anything is when either I force her to or her bf picks her up."
"Other than that, she'll go 4-5 days without showering or changing clothes. I've told her that has to stop. I love her but I'm not raising her baby or taking care of her like a child."
"She knows what's right and expected of her. Rita says I'm the ah because I'm turning my back on her and my grandchild…"
"…and if they suffer its my fault because I have the ability to give them a good life and home with plenty of stability but I'd rather make her struggle. (I'd never let the baby go without.)"
"AITA?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors
"NTA. She is going to either have to step up or give the baby up for adoption. After making sure she's physically healthy, you should help her get into therapy."
"She's clearly having a tough time figuring out how she's going to make it in this world with the responsibility of a child."
"Being a supportive parent to her and grandparent to the child does not mean giving them everything. But you can support your daughter to become more independent."
"I strongly feel a support group and therapy are a good starting point here." - vocabulazy
"NTA sink or swim - as long as you give her a free home, she won't change. Tell her to leave - she wanted the baby, now she needs to figure it out with the bf."
"Or you can be living with two babies, and you will be doing everything for both of them." - alien_overlord_1001
"You need to be prepared to raise the baby by yourself. Your daughter has something wrong with her. (Or she's just massively entitled and immature.)"
"OR you could show her the door and then hopefully she'll give that baby up for adoption. She doesn't sound fit to take care of a goldfish. NTA" - Littleballoffur22
"Are we sure your daughter is entirely mentally well? I don't say that to be mean. But it really sounds like she needs professional help NTA" - Sisi_R920
"NTA, I wonder if the baby was partly kept to ensure you can't kick her out."
"An adult that can't be bothered to shower probably should not have a kid."
"(I will say caring for something can sometimes give people motivation, but I'm not sure that will be the case)" - Raindripdrop
"NTA. I would set her down for a meeting and a contract. Make it clear that the parameters of the meeting are for her to be part of an adult conversation."
"If she cannot manage that, then your home will no longer be available to her. I would make part of the contract that she starts to pay rent, find a job, and have chores."
"If she can't maintain this, she has 30 days to move out." - HappyLifeCoffeeHelps
"It sounds like your daughter is suffering from severe depression. You aren't going to be able to berate that out of her."
"The best chance she has for being able to work or care for her baby is for that to be dealt with first."
"Telling her how she's an utter failure in life while also telling her she's not going to be able to care for the baby while she's in this state will likely exacerbate her symptoms."
"This is serious. People who are depressed enough to stop showering and fall on the floor crying when confronted with big stuff in the near future are at a high risk of dying by suicide."
"She really needs your support now, because she needs help and you need her to trust you when you say that."
"She is also overwhelmed, so you may need to help her take the first steps, like seeing a doctor or finding a therapist." - geth1138
"If she is not sleeping and going 4 or 5 days without showering or changing her clothes then she is about to bring a child into a mental health crisis…"
"…which has the strong possibility of getting much worse after she gives birth and postpartum depression is added to the mix."
"Moralizing won't improve her mental health nor will blaming or judging nor comparing her to her sibling or yourself when you were her age."
"She is still young enough that she may need parenting to navigate the convergence of a few significant crises."
"Your daughter needs help getting herself to the appropriate medical/mental health care professionals she needs."
"If she throws herself on the floor, then don't participate but calmly tell her this convo will resume after she can pull herself together and walk away."
"Keep going back until she agrees to get treatment. If she refuses then you confer with your doctor and a mental health provider about the best next steps. She must get help now."
"That is your best hope for getting her out of your home and on the path to healthy independence." - Venus_Cat_Roars
"This situation is above Reddit's pay grade. Your daughter is struggling with some sort of mental health issue and needs intervention."
"In the middle of all this, she is having a baby. She is not in a state to take care of an infant when it's time. Figure out the options now." - Spiritual-Bridge3027
The OP went on to edit their original post.
"Edit: talked to Rita about things over her favorite foods while we were both calm and in decent moods. Rita hates being an adult, says it's scary and the idea of having a baby is terrifying."
"She wants to be a kid again without all the adult worries and responsibilities."
"She semi regrets getting pregnant and giving up her freedom, but she and bf agreed to keep the baby she wishes she hadn't said yes so fast so she feels a bit trapped and overwhelmed."
"I asked her about the tantrums. She said it's just easier than facing reality right now. She has zero interest in going to school or working."
"She'd rather spend her time doing things that bring her personal fulfillment and happiness."
"I told Rita that I do understand and empathize, but it does not change the current situation and the fact a baby is on the way."
"I suggested an open adoption. Rita said no, that's not an option for her and her, but admitted she has no idea what's going to happen or how they're going to manage once the baby is here…"
"…and she's really unsure and scared. I once again suggested seeking therapy."
"Rita is not currently interested because she says therapy makes her feel like she's in some way defective or broken and she's not good enough as she is."
"Rita talked and vented a bit more, and I just kept quiet and listened."
Best of luck to the OP and her daughter.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp