OffRedditor LostnConfused1010 recently had a major foot-in-mouth moment during a very important conversation with his son.
The Original Poster (OP) had suspected for a long time that his son was interested in men, but when the time finally came for his son to come out he made a really bad joke at a really bad time.
He turned to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) for advice.
He asked:
"AITA for how I [37-year-old Male] reacted to my son [17-year-old Male] coming out to me?"
He went on to explain the situation.
"So, I've always known my son had an interest in men."
"He was slow on the pick up of incognito mode, and from the searches he made, I figured he was at least "Bi-curious" (if that's the proper term for it) since he hit puberty."
"Well, last year, he started bringing a boy around, and it was obvious they were dating, to the point I figured that he knew I knew, and it wasn't a big deal to anyone."
"Well, apparently, I was wrong."
"After school yesterday, he and his boyfriend came up to me and said there was something really important they needed to tell me."
"My son said that they were dating and had been for a year. Well... I was surprised that he wasn't aware I knew and was a bit thrown off."
"My mouth moved faster than my brain, and I said, 'Well, that's pretty f*cking gay.'"
"Now, I thought it was peak comedy, since it is, in fact, gay. However, I understand using the word gay in that way gives it a very negative undertone, hence the mouth faster than brain comment."
"Now my son and I are usually pretty "edgy" with our humor, this being fairly tame for the stuff we joke about."
"While probably not appropriate for the situation, it wasn't our norm for a conversation between us. However, he and his boyfriend were very, very upset and left."
"I'm probably the a**hole, but I thought I would check, and see if y'all had some advice on what I can say to fix it. He currently won't respond to my texts or calls."
"AITA?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"YTA for the wording. I won't lie, as someone who has been out and proud for years, that joke made me laugh my an** off."
"But your son needed support more than humor."
"In the grand scheme of things though, I was expecting much worse from the title."
"So I think if you just apologize and explain that you meant it in a humorous way and that you fully accept him and his partner, you and your son will be fine." - Lesbian-Mermaid
"YTA but I see what you were trying to do. I'm glad that, from the sounds of it, your son has a very supportive parent in you. A lot of us don't, so for real, props to you."
"But your son only had one chance at coming out to you. It's a big moment for him, and your response was to make a joke."
"I know you were trying to indicate that this wasn't a big deal to you in a bad sense, but I get why it was hurtful for your son and his boyfriend."
"Maybe apologizing and asking if you can have a second chance at acknowledging this moment for him would help turn it around." - SureCan0604
"You're the funny a**hole here."
"Trust me, in a very short space of time, you and your son will look back on the moment and laugh about it."
"Just give him time to simmer down, apologize, and explain you knew and thought it was very obvious."
"It was just an unspoken understanding, and no big deal made about it, and again, say sorry for not realising he wasn't yet at the place mentally about the situation that you were and obviously thought he was." - Massive-Antelope-856
"I'm clearly outnumbered, but I think NAH. Just somebody who made a joke at an inappropriate time. Who hasn't?"
"You live and learn. You clearly don't judge your kid for his sexuality, and I assume you just wanted to show acceptance by breaking the tension with an attempt at humor."
"Just apologize for joking during a moment that was clearly important to him and ask how you can best support him moving forward." - MaddyFatty
"I'm definitely going to be in the minority here, but nobody on Reddit knows your personal dynamic and this is exactly the type of joke I'd want my father to tell me to lighten the seriousness of it all."
"But what your son wanted was something more genuine in that moment. You misread the situation but I don't think that makes you an a**hole."
"NAH, and I'm glad you support your son." - behappysometimes
"You're gonna get rinsed, but I'll give my gay perspective. It's fine in the end, as long as you talk to him. He's told you something big, despite you already knowing."
"He'll be wanting some tiny bit of obvious support and a little bit of shock. We fight really hard as teens to hide our true selves, to realise it didn't work hurts a bit."
"Talk though, I suspect you're a good dad really." - teflon2000
"YTA for your wording."
"It no doubt hurt your son and his BF."
"You have no idea as to how his BFs family is when it comes to their relationship so you could have been a 'safe space' for them both to share their feelings and relationship." - LittlePea0617
"YTA - but it was funny. But Time and place."
"You need to apologise, and also inform him that you've known about his preferences for over a year, and you didn't raise it with him because you wanted him to be comfortable."
"That you support him 100%, love him to bits as your son, and if he needs anything you're there." - Apprehensive-Show322
"Lmao A+ for the joke. Made me laugh pretty hard lol but probably not the most appropriate for that scenario!"
"Although, I totally understand the whole mouth moving before the brain can process deal, and it's gotten me in trouble before!"
"I'd say just talk to them and smooth it over and explain that you've known all along and are okay with it, you just were thrown off guard, and your mouth went for it lol NAH" - Plum_Potato
"I feel like most people expect a negative reaction to coming out."
"So even though this was in the lane of the humor you and your son share, given the timing of it, his sensitivity to the situation meant that it wouldn't be received well."
"NAH, I just think you need a follow-up conversation to let him know you don't really gaf. Some people be gay…" - Itsjustausername535
"YTA. This was a very hard thing for him to do. The coming out story and how you, as the parent, take it is what can set the tone of your relationship with him going forward."
"Set your son down and tell him you're sorry. Tell him you've always known and you have and always will love him."
"Tell him you were trying to be funny but realize it was the wrong way and the wrong time to do so. As to him, not knowing you know... well, that's just kids being scared."
"I always taught my son that there was nothing wrong with loving who you wanted to love no matter the gender. He still feared I was going to throw him out of the house if he told me."
"It's just them being scared. Just let him know you love and respect him." - Spencerchick
"I'm bisexual. If my dad did that right as I had come out in front of my BF, I'd be upset…especially as a teen."
"After I knew he accepted me, I'd laugh with him. We have a similar kind of relationship with edgy jokes. Just apologize and offer your support."
"You're a well-intentioned AH. The impact just wasn't what you were expecting." - Bigjoeyjoe81
"NAH, you just made a mistake because you were taken by surprise. it was not a big deal to you because you have known for a long while, and you thought he knew you knew."
"so your mind was still in a normal estate, like a son just giving you an update on his current dating life."
"and your relationship with him being edgy banter, it just came out before your brain could make the connection"
"'why is he teeling me this?' > 'he thinks i dont know' > 'he is coming out, so it's a big deal for him, not the place to make a joke. definitely not the place to make that kind of jokes'"
"if you apologized when you finally connected the dots, i bet your son's reaction really helped too. then i wouldnt call you an A."
"also the reaction of your son is normal. he will calm down and most likely will forgive you by the mistake." - xBulletJoe
The OP went on to update his original post:
"Iiiiii did not expect this to gain so much traction. It's a bit intimidating, lol. I am reading all the comments, though."
"Anyways, here is a small update - He's at his grandparents' house, which I knew. He told them to tell me he'll be home tomorrow after school to talk. I'll update you all after the conversation."
"Thank you for your responses. I really appreciate it."
Most well-intentioned a**hole there ever was.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp