Redditor notinthebudgetaita is feeling the effects of the economy like most people these days.
While his family isn't struggling, they don't have as much wiggle room in the monthly budget as they used to.
However the Original Poster's (OP's) wife wants to financially help out her pregnant sister.
The OP has a different idea of how to best help his sister-in-law, and so ultimately an argument ensued.
This drove the OP to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) for help.
He asked:
"AITA For telling my wife to work more if she wants to help her sister financially"
He went on to explain.
"My wife [38-year-old female] and I [37-year-old Male] have been married for 12 years and have 3 kids (ages 10, 8, & 5)."
"We both work full-time and have the kids in daycare during the summer until school starts up again."
"We both make decent money, but with the cost of literally everything going up more and more often, our budget is getting tighter."
"We still live comfortably within our means, but we are saving much less and are being more conscious of our discretionary spending."
"Our youngest is starting kindergarten this fall, so that will help because we aren't spending on daycare anymore."
"But our oldest kids are now in more sport and extracurricular activities, which pretty much offset any saving we would be doing on childcare."
"We aren't anywhere near struggling, but we are definitely more aware of how we spend our money now."
"My wife's younger sister, Jen [30-year-old Female], is 6 months pregnant with her 3rd child. Jen is not married and this is her 3rd different baby daddy."
"Only one of the first 2 fathers is involved. The other is a complete deadbeat who regularly skips child support payments."
"Jen recently called my wife and told her that her current baby's dad left her, and she's freaking out and asking for help. Whether that be money, a place to stay, anything."
"My wife's parents are both passed away, and they have no other siblings, just each other. So, obviously, my wife wants to do whatever we can to help."
"But, we don't have the space to house them and don't have a lot of extra money to give them either."
"My wife wants to give Jen a few hundred dollars every month and to start watching her two older kids so Jen can keep working."
"Personally, I think that idea is short-sighted because Jen won't be able to work after the new baby comes."
"My idea was to dip into savings and pay for a lawyer for Jen to do a better job of getting the child support she is owed."
"I would rather bite a bigger bullet once than death by a thousand cuts over months and months. But my wife says that won't help put food on Jen's table every week."
"I laid out our budget and asked my wife where we can make cuts to support Jen because I just don't see it."
"I asked her what she would be willing to give up or have our kids go without, to support Jen. She got mad at me and called me heartless for not wanting to help."
"It turned into a fight, and I ended up telling her that if she wants to support her sister like this, then she is going to need to work more or get a 2nd job because I'm not compromising our family budget long-term."
"All of our finances are shared, so it's not like either of us has our "own" money to use however we want. I also know that my wife and I are the only family Jen has, and I agree that we should help."
"But adding hundreds or possibly more to our monthly budget isn't going to work. Jen needs more help than we can provide, and she needs to find resources that can do that for her."
"But my wife thinks I am being an uncaring AH about this."
"AITA?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"'I asked her what she would be willing to give up, or have our kids go without, to support Jen.'"
"She dodged the question that needs to be asked and played a guilt trip on top of it."
"NTA Stay the course. Your SIL has made her own bed and can continue lying in it." - KronkLaSworda
"This OP. Your Home and your children should not be punished or suffer the consequences of your sister-in-law's decisions."
"What will happen if there is a fourth or even a fifth nephew? Is it going to be a constant situation in which your children cannot have benefits for this?"
"Your sister-in-law has to deal with the consequences of her actions and put her life in order. otherwise, her behavior will only escalate, and you will be the ones harmed by it."
"NTA. Stand your ground." - Nana_Wait_What
"NTA. This is one of those cases where just giving her some monthly help will never solve the problem."
"I prefer your suggestion of paying for a lawyer so Jen can what is legally owed to her, but Jen is clearly too selfish to change her own behavior."
"How does your wife propose she can watch Jen's current children?" - TemptingPenguin369
"If Jen applies for benefits (beyond WIC) in the US, she will have to identify the fathers of these children. The state will help her get child support, and the children will get insurance."
"She can get substantial food stamps, and once she gets the ball rolling, there are options for help with child care and continuing education."
"The goal with these programs is to better the mother's quality of life, therefore the children benefit."
"My husband and I helped a young woman (kind of a friend of a friend situation) about two years ago; her baby daddy was in jail, but the rest mostly applies."
"She got emergency food stamps, delivered her baby, then started cleaning houses.. because she could work around the older two kids' schedules."
"She now has a business with four employees and doesn't need help from anyone. Partner and I are "honorary" Pop and Mimi, and she regularly thanks us for helping her become independent."
"That should be Jen's goal, and your wife should encourage her."
"You're NTA, and any help should be qualified with the understanding that it's short-term and contingent on improving her situation."
"ETA: Thank you for the awards, kind Redditors. I don't deserve any recognition. Tess deserves all of it! I couldn't be more proud if she was my own child!" - Smarterthntheavgbear
"NTA. The cold, hard truth is that you don't have the financial bandwidth to send several hundred dollars a month to her sister without either going into debt, penalizing your children by taking things away from them or compromising your future."
"This does not make you uncaring. What it makes you is a man who prioritizes his immediate family first."
"It's not about not wanting to help. It's about understanding the limitations of your own financial situation."
"If she wants to help her sister, she's going to need to increase that bandwidth. There's a cost associated with being her sister's savior. She's just refusing to acknowledge that right now."
"Unfortunately, you're going to need to keep a close eye on your finances. Your wife may well try to do an end run around you in order to help." - cachalker
"NTA."
"OP is trying to find long-term solutions and discuss long-term practicalities. It's a virtual certainty that over the next decade, the prices of basic necessities will continue going up faster than salaries."
"If OP's wife can't point to any possible budget cuts today, what are the chances that supporting the sister and 3 kids will ever get any easier for OP's family?"
"Plus, once the support starts, cutting her off will be virtually impossible."
"OP, for yoir kids' sake, this would be the hill I die on. If your wife wants to send money, especially monthly, then she needs to do 2 things."
"First, tell you where the budget cuts are coming from. Is Timmy done with soccer? Is the family no longer eating meat? Will you stop saving for retirement?"
"Second, your wife needs to acknowledge that if the budget gets tighter in the future, it's up to her to make and take blame for future cuts with the kids."
"But above all, do not let your wife put you into credit card debt for this. It will f*ck up your kids' lives."
"Tell her it's either help with a lawyer, or she has to resolve the budget." - SpaceJesusIsHere
"NTA."
"1. Family counseling asap. Your SIL and your wife are both in panic mode and aren't thinking clearly."
"You probably can't counsel them through this, but you don't have to go underwater with them. Insist on you and your wife seeing a therapist together to help sort through boundaries."
"2. Insist on paying for a lawyer, at least to get the paternity established for baby 3. SIL better be getting every bit of the child support she can from all three dads."
"3. Help her navigate all the assistance she can find. As a single mom of three, she might be eligible for low-income health care and possibly for WIC." - capmanor1755\
Best of luck to the OP, his family, and his sister-in-law's family.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp