"Sex is natural. Sex is fun."
Those are some immortal lyrics from George Michael.
Sex can be all of those things and more, except when you have to talk about it.
That's when sex can start to get weird.
It's especially problematic when the topic comes up between parents and kids.
Case in point...
Redditor Waste-Ad8081 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for refusing to stay somewhere else so my mom can have sex?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"It's my (19 F[emale]) birthday on Saturday, and I planned to go out drinking and come home to sleep after I was done."
"My mom (43 F) came into my room the other day asking me if I want to go and stay somewhere on that Saturday night so she can have her man over to do the deed."
"I was obviously upset by this and told her I planned on coming home as I wanted to sleep in my own bed."
"She then persisted that I go and stay with a friend because she didn't want to have to go out to do whatever."
"My twin siblings would also be out of the house."
"They are five and staying with my grandparents."
"I said it is not my problem that she wants someone to stay over and I will be coming home to sleep."
"She then told me that she would be loud and make sure to wake me up to hear and made it clear she did not want me home."
"This could have been a joke, but either way, it is not normal to say that to your child, right?"
"For context, I have been hearing my mom have sex with her boyfriends at the time since I was around ten years old, and I had complained multiple times at hearing this."
"I obviously don't want to come home and hear my mom having sex, but I also want to sleep at home as it is my bed and I too live there."
"We've been going back and forth on this, and now I'm going to stay somewhere else, but I still feel like she is in the wrong for asking me to leave in the first place."
"I don't know what to think.
"I understand where she is coming from, but still?"
The OP was left to wonder,
"So, AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA... and the number of people saying you're an a**hole and you should just leave the house or something prove how detached of reality those people are."
"You literally hear your mom having sex since you were 10, and she literally threatens you with being loud during the deed, especially when you complained about it."
"A kid shouldn't have to hear their parents have sex, especially when it's multiple strangers. It can be traumatizing."
"She can still have sex with whoever she wants, the kids just don't need to hear it."
"And yeah, I know, the 'Kids should be out of the house at 18 years old' are gonna come and be like, 'Well it's not her house!!!'"
"Yes, yes it is, she literally has the same rights as her mom even if she doesn't pay, which, like, she literally got out of high school at 18."
"Or maybe later, not even yet if she's got held back for a year or more, but I guess the parents ready to throw out their kids immediately when they turn 18 can't think of that or other scenarios where life isn't all rose-tinted and easy." ~ Meryuchu
"And she already plans on being out of the house celebrating her birthday that evening."
"Why couldn't mom and her boyfriend have sex in the window between 8 pm-midnight or whatever so that OP can come home and sleep in her own bed."
"On her birthday!!"
"It's not like OP is refusing to give them privacy. She just wants to sleep in her own home."
"This 100% sounds like a control issue, not a logistical one." ~ Wynfleue
"My son is in his early 20s, and I have never had sex with any partner while he's under the same roof."
"Probably due to the traumas I went through as a child, but the idea that any kid has to listen to their parents - or even worse, their parent/s and a casual partner - getting it on is just so gross and violating and abusive."
"OP is NTA."
"The mother is, though." ~ nutcracker_78
"100% agree, OP is NTA, and this kind of behavior is abuse from the mother, especially intentionally letting them hear it since they were 10 years old."
"My wife and I don't shy away from sex just because the kids are home, but we're quiet and discrete about it."
"We sure as hell are not discussing it with them or threatening they'll have to listen to us if they don't leave home."
"This is pretty damn sick for anyone to do, but especially a parent to their child." ~ DoubleNebula8347
"It is definitely abusive, and I spoke about trauma from experience. Threatening with that is wild and can also play on the trauma."
"But hey, there are still so many people here that prefer talking about how OP is an adult living at her parent's place!!!" ~ Meryuchu
"Fully agree with you."
"The number of people on this sub who are willing to throw their own children and, more so, other people's children to the wolves the day they turn 18 is absolutely bonkers to me - even more so in this economy. "
"That's not how reality works, and if that's your attitude towards kids, you shouldn't have any."
"OP is absolutely NTA."
"And frankly, even if she weren't her mom's child (which makes it 100x worse), she'd still be NTA."
"Adults with adult roommates have to figure out how to have sex quietly or plan around their roommates' schedules."
"It's just part of being an adult."
"Kicking someone else out so you can shag is some college dorm sh*t (and even in a dorm, it's in my opinion, an a**hole move).
"It being OP's birthday is the cherry on top." ~ cyanraichu
"I'm not understanding why mom can't go to a hotel or, as a 'birthday present,' pay for her daughter to stay in a hotel for the night."
"I think it's disrespectful of mom to do this, especially on her birthday."
"At least then it would look like she cared if she was safe by making sure she had a decent place to go."
"Only my opinion here." ~ bookluvr74
"NTA. Your mom sounds weird and inconsiderate. It's your f**king birthday."
"Also, for everyone saying she's 19, grow up, get your own place."
"You don't just magically retire from being a parent the day your kid turns 18."
"You're a parent until the day you die, and parents are supposed to put their kids first, and your mom isn't doing that."
"On your birthday." ~ RhineStonedCowgirl
"NTA. I would be traumatized if one of my parents said this to me."
"Some things need to be kept private for one."
'I would have asked if the guy has his own place?"
"If he doesn't, I'd question that too."
"Assuming he's the same age as your mom, he should have a place too." ~ ObjectiveBus7160
"NTA. Your mom sucks, both meanings of the word obviously."
"I'm 40, a dad, with a live-in girlfriend."
"We have sex regularly while our teenage and preteen kids are in the house."
"We shut our door, and it's usually done at night when we have our loud fan on so no one can hear what's going on."
"There are ways to get some with kids in the house that don't disturb anyone."
"Telling your kid to leave so you can get laid is pretty crappy."
"Especially on their birthday."
"OP, be sure to put on your noise-canceling headphones that night."
"Or, if you're feeling extra petty, make a sign of encouragement to place outside their door for when they're done."
"Maybe some water bottles for dehydration and cookies or even the phone number to a pharmacy that sells the morning-after pill." ~ Inner-Nothing7779
"NTA. You're going to take a lot of YTAs because Reddit has a hate for teens who still live at home."
"But, yes, your mom is wrong to ask you to leave and stay elsewhere than your home so she can have loud sex and threaten to be extra loud if you don't."
"Unfortunately, there just isn't a lot you can DO about it." ~ Right_Count
OP came back to chat...
"I feel like I need to clear some things up."
"First of all, no I do not pay rent because simply I cannot afford to."
"I live in the UK, so there is no underage drinking."
"I cannot simply just move out. That is easier said than done."
"And when I get to Uni next year, I do plan on leaving, and my mom also agrees that then will be the best time for me to move."
"I am still in full-time education and have a part-time job, so let's not be so harsh on the fact that I still live with my mom."
"I understand the privilege of living at home rent-free, but it doesn't take away from the fact that my own mom wants to get me out of the house so she can have sex with someone."
"Some of you asked about the boyfriend, and yes, he does have his own home."
"It's just in another city, and I've personally never met him."
Well, OP, Reddit is with you.
It's your birthday. You want to be comfortable... you're not asking for a lot.
It is your mom's home, but there must be a way for everyone to "rest" easily.
The sound-canceling equipment could be a good idea.
Good luck and Happy Birthday!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp