How much is too much and how far is too far when it comes to public displays of affection, or PDA?
What won't offend one person might scandalize another.
But, unfortunately, many people also apply double standards. While hand holding, hugs, and quick kiss are completely acceptable when the couple is heterosexual, homophobic bigots balk when they see the exact same behavior from any couple they perceive as not being a man and woman—leading to even heterosexual couples being targeted by their ignorance.
As bad as those double standards and discrimination are, it's worse when the bigot is a family member.
A sister tired of getting flak from her sister turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit for feedback.
Real_Big_2518 asked:
"AITA for not caring anymore about my sister's issues with me showing PDA with my partner?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"So my girlfriend (21, female) and I (22, female) have been together for 4 years, and when it comes to PDA, we're actually pretty chill and we're pretty mindful. We know what's too much, like a** grabbing, making out, weird baby talk in public, and we don't do that stuff."
"We would just hold hands, hug, or kiss occasionally. We're also super aware that PDA makes some people uncomfortable, so we try to be respectful and dial it down around others when it seems like it might be too much or we're just in an environment that doesn't call for that."
"The issue is my older sister (34). She constantly picks at any little bit of affection we show. It honestly feels like she's made it her personal mission to criticize how we act around each other."
"She'll get annoyed or judgmental even if we're just holding hands."
"She also complains when I bring my partner along to things and says she feels like a third wheel (which I totally understand, but I don't bring my partner to everything). It's not like I'm dragging her everywhere we go."
"So I'm going to give some examples; there are a few, but I'll leave it to the two recent events I can think of."
"On my birthday, I went on a trip to Florida with some friends and my sister. I was sick the whole time, and my girlfriend was just holding my hand and being supportive."
"My sister texted me during the trip to say the PDA was too much for her. So we stopped, there was no more hand-holding or anything, the rest of the time. Nobody else seemed bothered, and we weren't doing anything over the top."
"My sister invited me and my girlfriend to go to an amusement park with her and a friend. We held hands occasionally, and kissed a few times, but mostly not even in their view."
"Nothing wild in my opinion, but literally just normal couple stuff. I also comforted my girlfriend when she felt sick from the rides. Today, we went out for breakfast and did some thrifting before heading back home (we live a few states away)."
"Again, same deal, held hands sometimes, maybe kissed like three times the whole day."
"At one point we playfully shared a stick of gum—which I'll admit could look weird from the outside, but it was just us being silly, no kissing or anything, feel like that's the most over the top thing we might have done the whole trip."
"Out of nowhere, my sister snaps and starts yelling at us, saying we were being 'inappropriate' the whole trip, and if she acted like that with her ex, we'd hate it. We apologized and left early."
"The thing is, it's starting to feel like nothing is acceptable to her. She doesn't want us to show any affection at all, and honestly, it feels really judgmental and projecting."
"It's made me feel kind of ashamed just for holding my partner's hand, which is something I think is completely harmless and sweet. When straight couples do it, it's seen as normal or even cute. Why should I feel weird for doing the same?"
"So yeah, AITA for not really caring anymore about how she feels about our PDA?"
The OP summed up their situation.
"I continued to show small signs of affection with my partner, like holding hands or quick kisses, even after my sister expressed that she thinks it's too much."
"Disregarding her feelings about it might make me the a**hole."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA: I don't know what to say without sounding rude, but I think your sister is either jealous or is secretly homophobic." ~ UpsetChemistry8943
"I wouldn't say 'secretly' honestly." ~ angry-redstone
"It's not even a secret anymore. She's obviously homophobic." ~ GreyJediBug
"NTA. You are right, whatever big feelings Sister has are in clear view."
OP, you are overindulging your sister. If she finds your PDA unbearable, she needs to look away or reduce her contact. Nothing you have described rises to the point of being awkward to be around."
"Stop making excuses for yourself and your relationship. Either ignore her complaints going forward, or tell her that since you aren't doing anything more than heterosexual couples around you are doing, you will chalk her discomfort up to homophobia, in which case the onus is on her to avoid contact." ~ Rude_Vermicelli2268
"Sweetheart, I don't think it's a PDA problem anymore. She sounds homophobic, sadly. I'm so sorry you have to put up with her. NTA at all." ~ BlanketBurrito22
"NTA. I may have missed it, but does she have this problem when other couples show PDA, or just you and your partner?"
"Also, does it feel like there's actually some homophobia going on?"
"Either way, NTA, remind your sister that this is your partner, who you love, and the two of you will show PDA like any other couple has the right to!" ~ CaregiverCool3423
"NTA....Your sister is either homophobic or jealous of your relationship. From what I see, there is nothing wrong with the PDA you say you are doing."
"If so, my husband and I would be in the same boat as you guys. We hold hands when out, we kiss occasionally, we hug. That is it."
"So, I would tell your sister she either gets over it, or you just hang out less." ~ Worth-Season3645
"NTA, I completely missed that you're a queer couple and was really confused about what the problem was until the 'when straight couples do it'. I'd have a serious talk with her, either it's internalised homophobia (not 100% intentional) or just homophobia."
"You're doing nothing wrong. This is a 'her' problem, not a 'you' problem. She can either start acting like an adult or not. The only thing you can do then is protect your own peace." ~ WitchAstra1998
"Does she only have a problem when you're holding hands/kissing in public? Because if it's all the time, she definitely sounds homophobic whether she wants to admit it or not."
"If it's only in public, she could be nervous about what other people think/how they will react, which could be homophobic OR concern for you guys getting harassed by homophobic others, however, you're grown adults and she doesn't get to make that choice for you."
"Also, other people need to get a grip if they have an issue with hand-holding and a few kisses." ~ Altruistic_Ad_9821
"Holding hands and the occasional peck are in no way considered too affectionate in the company of others."
"You're not sticking your tongues down each other's throats in front of your sister, and you're sure as hell not doing anything wrong, which means your sister's issue runs deeper.
"Either she has some kind of unresolved trauma or something, or perhaps she's homophobic. Either way, NTA." ~ Ok_Reputation_3612
"Your sister is homophobic. She can pretend you're not queer as long as you're not in a relationship, but when you are, you're breaking her perfect reality where you're actually straight."
"So she's trying to stop your affection with your partner so it doesn't alter her fantasy world."
"She's the AH. You're young, happy in your relationship, and she isn't happy that you're happy. If you keep changing how you show your partner affection it's going to start to affect your relationship and could end it."
"Which is what your sister wants. So next time she makes a snide comment or says you're being too much, tell her to look the other direction. Don't let her dictate your personal relationships. Tell her to mind her own business." ~ introvert_tea
"Not going to lie, I'm a prude. I hate PDA with a passion. I give people a little wriggle room if they are clearly coming out of a church in a wedding gown/tux or going off to/coming back from a war."
"Other than that, my baseline response is to think 'Get a room'. Here's the thing, the amount of PDA you're describing is well within MY standards for acceptable displays in public (unless you're misrepresenting yourself and you're actually giving each other prolonged kisses with tongue)."
"I don't care about the makeup of the couple (races, religion, age, genders) unless one is clearly underage and their partner isn't, or there is clearly coercion involved."
"If I as a 50+ ace prude am okay with it, I think other posters are right and your sister is likely homophobic. NTA." ~ Andreiisnthere
The OP probably needs to confront her sister to find out her reason for objecting or plan to spend a lot less time with her.
If the OP's love is objectionable to her sister, then they don't need to spend time together.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp