Getting away from toxic family can sometimes be a long and complicated process, particularly if you need to untangle false beliefs, vital paperwork, safety, and who stays v who goes.
That process gets even more complicated when you become a new parent and need to worry about your child's wellbeing as well as your own.
A Reddit user who has since deleted their account asked:
"AITA for refusing to tell people I had a baby, meaning I can't attend my sister's wedding?"
Before we get into the difficult details of their story, let's go over how the AITA ("Am I The A**hole?") subReddit works. AITA is devoted to those moments when you're not sure if you're being the bad guy or not and it operates pretty simply.
The original poster (OP) explains their situation as a post. Then other Reddit users share their thoughts in the comments before casting their votes.
Voting options are:
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Here is her original post:
"My sister called the whole family a week ago to say that she and her fiancé have to bump their wedding up, so they wanted to know when we're all free so we can watch them sign the certificate over zoom, though they are planning on having a reception in person at some point in future."
"We all responded with time slots and she's booked a zoom call 2 weeks from now."
"I had a baby last year. I gave birth in May, to be exact. I have not told my family, because my relationship with my family is difficult."
"If I were being nice, I would call it dysfunctional. If I wasn't being nice, I would call it deeply upsetting."
"Of my entire family (5 siblings, parents, step parents, extended relatives) only 1 brother and the sister who's getting married know about my daughter, and they've both sworn to secrecy."
"My sister wants everyone on camera with their microphones on at all times, and after the signing she wants us all to hang out for a bit, which would be perfectly reasonable, except because people don't know I have an infant, there is no way to go on camera/mic and hide this."
"My flat is entirely open plan. Everywhere is covered in baby stuff. It would be impossible to show my flat and still hide all the baby stuff, and that's not even considering the actual baby."
"My child is crawling at this stage, and is learning to pull herself up onto things and her new favourite thing to do is pull herself up to sit beside me."
"And even if I managed to hide all visible traces of my daughter, I guarantee that in the hour long zoom call my sister has planned, they will definitely hear her."
"I've told my sister I can't do it. Attending the wedding would mean announcing the pregnancy/baby, and that's just not something I'm comfortable with."
"My sister responded that she wants me there, so I asked if I could have the camera/mic off, but she said no because she's planning to record the call and use it like a wedding video."
"I said in that case there was just no way to make it work and apologized."
"She said that's bullsh*t, I can clearly make it work, either by announcing the pregnancy/baby now, giving her a 2 week window for people to move on from the information, or I can lie and say my daughter is someone else's child who I'm babysitting or something like that."
"I said I'm not going to lie about my daughter's existence, nor will I announce it when I am not comfortable."
"The argument went from there, with my sister's side being that if I announced it now and dealt with the responses ASAP, her wedding would be able to run smoothly, and it was sh*tty of me to refuse when this was important to her."
"My side was that it's shitty of her to refuse to make accommodations for my attendance (letting me leave the mic/camera off) and it's completely unreasonable to expect me to plaster that I have an 8 month old all over social media just so I can attend her wedding."
"We're now at a stalemate, and neither of us is backing down."
And some additional important details that came out in the comments:
"I have a couple of things to sort out regarding my family. Issues with documents and contact, among other things, and once those are sorted out I will be going no contact."
"If my parents find out I have a daughter before I go no contact, they could try for grandparents' rights when I do cut them off."
"I don't want my family to know for my own reasons that I can't explain, but I swear they're good ones. I will be maintaining a level of contact with my sister and brother who know but that's it."
"My family are encouraging contact between themselves and a dangerous individual while also restricting my contact with vulnerable family members. I need to be able to maintain communication with the vulnerable family members and ensure my family distances themselves from the bad person."
"My parents also have the original copies of several important documents I am struggling to replace, so I need to get those back. Once that's all sorted, I can go no contact."
"Yes I'm planning on hiding the baby til she is an adult. I'm moving away as soon as I've done what I need to do here."
"Regarding them finding out, ideal circumstances would be that I'd already moved away and gotten married, but if they find out before I've moved and I've not sorted out everything yet, then my plan is to just go ASAP."
Reddit was kind of all over the place on this one.
There was no way the sisters "no mute" rule was going to work, but many didn't believe OP was being realistic either.
"You're either incredibly naive or extremely stupid if you really think that you'll be able to hide the existence of your daughter for oh, I dunno, the rest of her life?"
"Even if you're just planning on waiting until your older family members die (still messed up by the way) then what's your game plan until then?"
"What are you going to do when your daughter asks about the family she never gets to see? "Oh sorry sweetie, grandma and grandpa don't know that you exist." ?"
"What about when she's old enough to look them up herself?"
"You haven't thought this out in the slightest and it shows. This is beyond unsustainable and essentially guaranteed to royally mess your daughter up."
"At this point in your life I'd focus a little more on giving your daughter a less dramatic childhood and a little less on your own pettiness. Because while you may say that your family is dysfunctional and difficult to deal with, you sound no different."
"Oh, and YTA by the way, if that wasn't already obvious."
"From one victim of a dysfunctional family to another: you're a part of the problem, and if you keep this up then you won't break the cycle and your daughter will have to deal with the exact same problems that are currently torturing you."
"You have to stop."
"By no means do you have to involve your parents (or any of your family members for that matter) in your daughter's life."
"You don't have to invite them over, you don't have to answer their calls, you don't have to involve them in anything if you don't want to. Your family is not owed that, and you have every right to be selective with who you allow in her life."
"But deliberately hiding her existence from your family isn't helping you or her, it's just going to hurt your daughter far more than you realize." - aphinion
"YTA"
"You're already lying. Trying to state one lie is better than the other is semantics. It's all not being honest."
"I wouldn't announce your child or cover it up. You don't owe anyone an explanation as to why the child is there."
"If anyone asks during the wedding all you have to say is 'this is my sister's day.' And If they press the issue hang up. At least you tried to be there."
"But you've made your choice not to inform people about the baby. That's okay."
"I would just be part of the call and not discuss the baby at all." - DarcyKnits
"NTA. Just because she's family doesn't mean you have to attend the wedding, even though she's someone you like and get along with."
"People don't understand this concept: you are never under any obligation to go to any event, even if it's for family."
"It sucks for her that you can't/don't want to attend but also she has respected your choice in the past about not want to tell the rest of your family about your child so why is this different?"
"You want to protect yourself and your baby from a family that was not the nicest to you, she needs to understand that if they found out then it could be horrible for you and the baby."
"I say you do you. It's your baby, your mental health and your choice" - apeers29
"It is possible to hide baby stuff/face a wall. It is possible to say it is someone else's baby (you're already lying by omission)."
"It is possible to mute your mic for a few minutes here and there when the baby is making noise, your sister will be so busy with the wedding she wont have a spot light on you."
"Just own that you don't want to participate and deal with the consequences."
"That being said if you truly do want to attend there are ways to suppress background noise on zoom and use headphones so most of the sound that is picked up is from you." - BCalifornia267
"YTA. Kinda?"
"Firstly, she can't actually stop you muting yourself and secondly she's going to very rapidly want people muting themselves because unmuted mics on zoom are a nightmare, particularly during the ceremony."
"Lastly, she's going to be in the ceremony not sitting at the laptop checking everyone's sound settings." - acatgod
"YTA for not even trying. Keep yourself muted, and say there is construction in your neighborhood. Hell, play construction sounds through YouTube if you need to."
"If your sister is one of the two people you trust and confide in, you need to be there for her. It's the right thing to do." - teamoctopus
"There is a way to mute your microphone through the computer and not through the zoom application so it doesn't show that you are muted."
"Or maybe say your computer speakers/mic are not working right and get a cheap headset."
That will limit the amount of "other noise" that could come through the chat. (some of those headsets have their own mute button so you can switch it on and off as needed)" - neckbishop
"NTA. You have a difficult relationship with your family, I feel that if it is difficult enough to not even tell them about your baby then you have good reason to not talk to them at all."
"To be honest it's really weird your sister expects you to talk to your family anyway if she's aware of how difficult the relationship is." - pobream
Whatever the OP opted to do, we sincerely hope she and her baby are able to get to a point where their lives are safe, happy and healthy.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp