Dining with family can be a hassle. There are always certain places half of the group wants to go, and the other half would rather die than go to.
So, of course, picking the restaurant becomes a war.
However, there are a few particular places that may make some people feel uncomfortable to be at.
So those should probably be avoided, right?
Wrong.
Redditor HamsterInformation wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for refusing to go into Hooters for my brother's 18th birthday and sitting in the car?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I'm 14 F[emale] and just last week my older brother turned 18."
"He is at college a few hours away so my mom, dad, and I got in the car to meet him and give him presents, and yeah."
"I crocheted him a Pikachu."
"Nobody talked about what we were eating for dinner ahead of time or I just wouldn't have gone."
"But when we got there my dad kept asking if my brother wanted to go to Hooters."
"I'm gonna be honest and just say that it made me feel really uncomfortable."
"For those of you that don't know Hooters is this chain restaurant where the whole point is to gawk at the waitresses who are all hot girls wearing white shirts and little orange shorts."
"It made me feel really, really uncomfortable and bad, so I said that they could go inside, and I looked and saw there was a bookstore like a 5-minute walk away, so I'd go there instead because I did not want to go."
"My dad got pissed off and started screaming at me that if I had a problem, I could sit in the car."
"So I said ok, I'll just sit here."
"He snatched my phone and screamed that I wouldn't need my phone to sit here."
"I said ok."
"They went in, then about 20 minutes later, my mom came out to ask me to go inside with them, and I said no, I don't want to go there."
"After they dropped off my brother he screamed at me for my actions."
"I lowkey thought my mom would get it but when we got home she told me that I should have just gone in because it was not that big a deal."
"I told her that it felt really gross to go to a restaurant just meant for gawking at women with my dad and brother."
"That if my dad wanted to perv out like that, he should have just gone with my brother."
"She said that sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do."
"Which, yeah, I get that, but I figured that applied more to stuff like having to do homework or babysit my mom's friend's kids."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. You're right - going to Hooters with your dad and brother does sound like a gross time."
"I wouldn't have wanted to go either."
"It's not a family restaurant. They have a target demographic - and you're not it."
"Your dad's reactions are WAY out of line and sound borderline abusive."
"I'm sorry - you may want to talk to your school counselor about his actions."
"She said that sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do."
"And hard no on this - this is for stuff like homework, not going to a restaurant whose sole purpose is to objectify women with your brother and father while they eat wings and make inappropriate comments." ~ Discount_Mithral
"As much as I love all the ideas on here, I feel they would still ultimately end up bad for OP as he would continue to make her life hell."
"So, if I was OP, I'd be calculating the exact moment I could tell him to go f**k himself and go completely No Contact with him."
"And in the meantime, I'd focus on getting my ducks in a row and slowly distance myself as much as possible from him."
"For example, if he was going to pay for college, have him pay for college, but then find reasons why you can't come home during breaks, things like that."
"Don't derail your life because he's a sleaze-bag."
"Play the long game."
"Use him to get yourself into a position where you will never need help from a sleaze-bag like him again."
"And when that day comes when your mom is desperate to meet her grandchildren, make sure to tell her 'Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do.'"
"So for the safety of your children, you can't allow her to have contact with them." ~ PurplePufferPea
"NTA. So so right."
"It appears that Dad really wanted to go to Hooters, the brother didn't suggest it."
"Not to be seeing sexual abuse everywhere, but this 14-year-old girl was very upset, and the father seemed enraged that she didn't want to go there."
"Is there some underlying reason the OP was so uncomfortable?"
"And why in the hell would a father want to take his 14-year-old daughter to Hooters anyway?"
"If I was the mom, I would have said hell no."
"Dysfunctional and I really hope OP talks about this to a school counselor or someone out of the family." ~ Ms_Apprehend
"As a 30-year-old who has an abusive father, don't f**king do this."
"If he'll scream at you in a parking lot and take your phone for not going in Hooters, he'll make home a prison for you if you embarrass him at best."
"Do people here forget that some people hit their kids? Starve them?"
"Lock them inside the house? Don't do this."
"Ask your counselor for extensive scholarship help and to point you in the direction of after-school programs that'll build up your portfolio/CV/college applications and put all of your focus into becoming independent and setting up a future where you never need to talk to your abusive parents again."
"That's what you do, not take petty shots at them that will be funny for a second and then ruin you emotionally, physically, and academically for years after."
"My dad used to take my homework and my books and throw them in the bathtub or snow."
"Understand that not all parents give a f**k about their children's succeeding, especially their girl children."
"Some are more concerned with demoralizing them and keeping them under their thumb, and OP's dad seems more like that, doesn't he?" ~ EarlAndWourder
"I 100% agree with this and OP's dad sounds like a weirdo."
"It kind of sounds like going to Hooters was his suggestion to begin with, which is something he should have done as a father/son thing some other time if he wanted to go so bad."
"I'm a guy and I'd feel super awkward going somewhere like Hooters with my mom and sisters." ~ Alternative_Loss_128
"NTA. Genuinely so impressed with you sticking to your values and not going along with misogyny and the objectification of women even under huge pressure from your parents."
"There's no way I would have had that level of maturity and strength of mind at your age!"
"Girls like you will change the world. :) " ~ grammarlysucksass
"You felt uncomfortable being there, him getting angry because you disobeyed him sends the wrong message to you."
"By his logic, you would always have to force yourself into uncomfortable situations to satisfy your father or husband or whomever."
"You stuck up for yourself and never feel bad for that."
"Massive respect to you. NTA." ~ Philip_J_Fry3000
"NTA... but both your parents are huge a-hole."
"Your dad yelled at you to try and cover up his embarrassment for wanting to ogle young girls like the creepy old man he is."
"Why would they expect a 14-year-old girl to enjoy Hooters?"
"I feel so sorry you have to live with these two creepy people."
"Just thinking about a dad and mom trying to force their young daughter into a Hooters against her will just gives me the creeps. Yuck."
"Show these responses to your horrible parents." ~ Agreeable_Rule_7768
"NTA, and screaming at you is way out of line."
"This wasn't 'Oh, I don't like seafood and that's a seafood restaurant' - then you suck it up and go."
"This is a restaurant that overtly sexualizes the waitresses, and I completely understand being uncomfortable going, especially as a teenage girl." ~ InannasPocket
"NTA. Never understood why anyone thinks it's okay to force someone else to do something they're not comfortable with."
"End of the day, you feel a certain way about something and take a stand in line with your personal beliefs and morals."
"Seems like a pretty impressive thing to do to me, especially when it's family."
"Anyone can argue against your feelings if they feel differently, but that still doesn't make you the AH for not wanting to support something you don't like, agree with, or feel uncomfortable with." ~ daedric_dad
"NTA - your dad on the other hand is total AH and needs reminded that it's 2024 and no teenage girl going through puberty should be forced to go into a place like that."
"He should have just gone to a strip club."
"Your mum needs to grow a backbone and put herself in your shoes." ~ Ok-Swordfish-2455
OP came back to chat...
"I wanted to clear up something because it keeps coming up but my brother's birthday dinner wasn't ruined."
"They got to go inside and have a good time."
"He got his presents and money, and he and Dad talked about how big their waitress's 't*ts' are and how hot it would be to see her and the other girl together on the drive back to his school."
"So nothing was ruined because I wasn't there."
"And no I'm not lying about my dad screaming."
"He screams when he gets mad."
"I know the difference between a scream, a yell, and a raised voice or talking sternly."
"Go ahead and judge me, but don't call me a liar."
Well, OP, Reddit is with you. You shouldn't have to be uncomfortable for a simple dinner.
Maybe approach your Mom first to open a dialogue.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp