Packing efficiently is a skill not everyone possesses. But some people are so far from efficient that it's hard to characterize what they do as packing.
A husband struggling with his wife's chaotic packing turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no official voting acronyms and no final judgment given.
Ok-Cut-9597 asked:
"AITAH for telling my wife she makes traveling no fun?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"So my wife (38, female) and I (36, male) have been together 8 years. We live in my home state of Arkansas, she is from San Diego."
"Every year she wants to visit home, we used to fly, but since we have a kid (2, female), she now wants to drive."
"I have no problem using all my vacation days for this. She lives here. Traveling is a pain because she overpacks."
"Used to fill my CX-7 FULL, but work gave me a $900 car allowance and we used that to get a full size Surburban. This time she loaded THAT full. I mean, front passenger to the ceiling, so I can't see the mirrors fully."
"We didn't use hardly any of it. Every stop, I carried everything into the hotel because she was afraid it would get stolen. It's 3 days each way."
"Got through it, told her she makes traveling miserable because she is also super late. Tell her 10am. She might arrive by noon. So every day, we don't leave the hotel until 12, then she insists we drive until midnight, ugh, unfun."
"Anyway. This weekend I was sent to a work conference. They got me a sweet hotel room, a week at a nice resort, super excited."
"We were going to go and leave the baby. The day before she cancels, my mom is watching to bring our child. Fills the suburban full, again. Mind you, it's my work trip. 5 days, 5 nights."
"Most of the stuff was just overpacking. She brought a tote of blankets. One of towels. Two of her clothes! Totes!!"
"I told her she makes it miserable (the hotel always gets cluttered and full, the night before we leave is always a mess trying to pack, and her 'organizing' stuff she brought that never gets used."
"She freaked out, told me I just want to go hook up and cheat at these things (I invited her) and that she is filing for a divorce because I told her 'your overpacking and insisting we fill every vehicle full and always being late makes me miserable'."
"We were 3 hours late leaving to get to the conference, so I missed the networking opening night, which is where in my industry people tend to clique up afterwards to a degree."
"I missed going to the best vendor events, etc, because she insisted that I not leave because she was overwhelmed with how messy the hotel room was."
"Mind you, it was all the stuff she brought, took out of totes, and never used, and the toddler then destroyed."
"AITAH?"
The OP later added:
"Yes, I am involved in raising our child. I actually packed for our trip. I had one bag for the baby to go to mom's (toys, diapers, food, etc). A big bag and one large suitcase. I had a bag packed for wife and one for me."
"She was diagnosed with ADHD when she was younger. Used to be on meds, stopped taking them before she met me."
"She does have anxiety about leaving the baby with anyone but my mom. My mom raised my sisters' kids (now 22 and 18), so she loves just being grandma to ours with babysitting, weekly visits, and some overnights."
"As for hobbies and a couple of times, that's not a thing. She did have hobbies, but has cut them out of her life."
"I take baby for a walk (stroller) 45 minutes a night when I get home so she can breathe. She used to paint, and we built her a studio (she just does it for fun) so she could get back into it."
"However her entire identity now is being 'mom'."
"She had postpartum. I got her an online therapy resource, but found out a few months back she never logged in and never met with someone."
"She always says she doesn't want to do this, then trip comes and she does it."
"I am not a cheater. She accused me of it last time I went solo. I am exhausted. If she left me, I think I would be done with relationships; my own mental health is wrecked."
"My boss wasn't mad; he found the whole thing hilarious when I told him. He skipped half of the conference himself. My job wasn't threatened, but to me it was."
"I tried the whole packing thing for her and me. I have tried to just accept her issues, but it's gotten worse. When we first got together, she needed a large checked bag for a 2-day trip to Las Vegas. Now she needs an entire suburb for a week's trip."
"One of the issues is that the vehicle is so full. If it were just the back, I might be able to deal. But it's so full I can't even see the side mirror. I've expressed how unsafe that is, and she doesn't care, just yells that I don't understand."
"Yes, she comes from a hoarder background."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not in the wrong (NTA).
"NTA. Personally, I think your wife is crazypants for wanting to drive the 20+ hours both ways between San Diego and Arkansas with a 2-year-old instead of flying. I've made that trip twice without kids, and it was torture."
"I feel like she's making it harder for y'all to travel, not easier."
"The bottom line is that she went with you on a WORK trip, made you late, accused you of wanting to cheat, and threatened to divorce you. None of those things are okay OP." ~ No_Fix8103
"OP needed to make a stand eight years ago. This woman has been walking over him for that entire time, guaranteed." ~ Mach5Driver
"The fact that she is impacting your job and career would be it for me. Not only did you miss events, but I can only imagine what your peers thought when you rolled in late or were seen taking the kitchen sink from your Suburban to the hotel room."
"I also would never drive a car where I can't see out the back window and the side windows. I literally would not back out of the driveway."
"NTA, but you need to grow a spine and deal with this. If I were your boss, I would be extremely unhappy with you showing up late to a conference that I'm paying you to attend." ~ Puzzled-Safe4801
"You very much remind me of my parents."
"My mother has a major anxiety disorder that makes everyone else's lives miserable, and my father is a massive coward and a pushover who doesn't want to 'rock the boat' and lets her do whatever her anxiety-riddled brain decides is OK as long as she gets soothed, no matter how dangerous or crazy."
"Your wife needs some help, and you need to grow a backbone, or your kid will grow up to have a similar anxiety disorder to their mother and attachment issues from you teaching them that they cannot rely on their own parents for safety."
"You both need counseling, and your wife needs a psychiatry appointment with someone who understands postpartum. PsychologyToday has a good provider finder on their website."
"I hope you both get the help you need and your child needs." ~ Mysterious_Product13
"Medication. Therapy. Not letting her walk all over you because of it. Lots of us have OCD and still manage to not be jerks to our partners."
"I have ADHD and OCD, sounds like she might too, and after a baby, hormones can make that so much worse. Never one to diagnose over the internet, but you might want to suggest couples counseling and individual therapy for each of you." ~ Sea_Brush9110
"She's definitely got some kind of anxiety issue going on - lots of warning signs in OP's post. She needs some mental health assistance for sure." ~ General_Scratch2647
"Insisting on going with the baby, overpacking, then not letting him leave the room, basically, to a work function, and then threatening divorce over the situation is... not right." ~ rageagainsttheodds
"Dude, your wife is an emotionally abusive a**hole. You guys either need to get counseling to work through this or you need to seriously consider just divorcing her."
"Stop inviting her on work trips. Tell her that until she learns to respect and trust you, your time, and your job, she's not welcome to come with you. She needs to grow the hell up. Send her this post."
"Someone who loves you wouldn't insult you or accuse you of cheating. She is the problem, and she needs to get help for her issues instead of making you pay for the sins of her past partners." ~ MaryEFriendly
It seems like the OP has at least a path forward.
Hopefully, he can convince his wife to travel it with him.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp