Content Warning: Mental Health
As much as it might hurt to admit it, sometimes it can be difficult to be around a loved one who has a mental illness, as they may not always be the most kind to other people.
It's worth stating that a person's diagnosis shouldn't be an excuse for them mistreating other people, but it also shouldn't mean that they are unqualified for medical care, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor Unhappy_Hope1048 was shocked to find out that she had been excluded from the next family vacation because of her "mood swings" related to her Bipolar Disorder Two diagnosis.
But with her mother also withholding her medical information, the Original Poster (OP) had larger concerns than a missed vacation to deal with.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for getting upset after my family planned a vacation without me?"
The OP recently overheard plans for a family trip.
"I (18 Female) just recently found out that my family has been planning a vacation without me after my grandma let it slip while on the phone with my mother (39 Female)."
"In my family, vacations are somewhat frequent because my great aunt has a bunch of condos all around the US and she lets the family use them."
"I'm currently staying at the one she has in Florida with my grandma (62 Female) when I overheard her in the living room on the phone with my mom talking about my little brother's (11 Male) Christmas present, which is a plane ticket down to one of the condos my great aunt has."
It was soon clear that the OP wasn't written into the trip itinerary.
"I later confronted her about who was going, and she said my aunt and her family, and then my mom and brother."
"I asked her where my invite was (thinking that I was invited), and she told me I wasn't going."
"When I asked why, she said it was because no one wanted me to come."
"A little bit of back story as to why I think they don't want me around is because I have BPD Two (Bipolar Disorder, Type Two), and I have very bad mood swings."
But there may have been bigger concerns that the OP needed to deal with than the trip itself.
"I'm on medication for it that my mom controls but refuses to tell me how to refill or even let me do it, so I'm currently not on the medication."
"I'm not too sure if I have a right to be upset since I sort of understand why they don't want me around, but it still hurts knowing my whole family all agreed they didn't want me to come on a vacation with them like I usually do."
"And I will admit I definitely got very upset and started yelling, which probably didn't help, but I was just upset."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some empathized with the OP and gave her advice about accessing her medication.
"I'm sorry your grandma hurt your feelings. But, your being unmedicated is the real issue to me."
"You don't need anyone to tell you how to refill a prescription because you're 18. Call your doctor's office and leave a message for your doctor that your mother won't give you access to your meds and you need to be able to manage the prescription yourself."
"It's your right as the patient who is not also a chronological child. (Leave your mom and grandma out of that loop.)"
"About Christmas, of course, you're going to be inconsistent in your moods and behaviors. YOU'RE OFF YOUR REGULATING MEDS!"
"Tell your grandmother that pharmacology isn't your mom's area of expertise and she is making bad matters much worse."
"Frankly, I don't know why you are concerned about spending Christmas with them all. You deserve a break from their nonsense."
"NTA." - AndSoItGoes24
"NTA, OP!"
"Even though dealing with a person who has BPD can be difficult/challenging, especially for people who don't quite understand the disorder and, therefore don't know how to handle it, the whole 'let's just exclude OP and pretend like nothing happened' is such an inconsiderate move."
"First of all, just planning the vacation and completely shutting you out is bad, and they shouldn't do it to you. But if they really thought about the impact that you could have on their vacation and decided that they'd prefer not having you there, they could have called you for a talk, explained the situation and respectfully told you that you would be staying out of this one."
"And about your meds, they are such an indispensable, serious, and necessary part of the 'handling process' that I just don't quite understand why your mother would deprive you of that, you know? Without them, an essential and much-needed piece of the stabilization mechanism is missing; therefore, all your efforts towards stability will be jeopardized." - xinenigans
"NTA. It is bad enough you are being excluded from the family vacation, but withholding your meds is almost criminal, and maybe is."
"Call the doctor, make an appointment, and get a new script for your meds. Tell your Doctor that your Mother is no longer authorized to deal with your medical stuff."
"Once you are on an even keel, get yourself a job, get your own medical insurance (I do feel for you Americans, you wouldn't have this problem almost anywhere else in the Western world), and get your own place to live." - Successful_Bath1200
"If you are underemployed (no insurance offered where you work, or if you don't work), with a mental health doctor(s), you can get on Medicaid if your mom kicks you off her insurance."
"Get a copy of your medical records from your doctor, which will list all of your doctor(s) and prescriptions. If your mom has medical power of attorney and is withholding your meds, call adult protective services because that is abuse. They will set her straight."
"If she kicks you off her insurance because you called out her abuse, share that information with your family so they know your continued acting out is because your mom is abusing you by withholding medical care to manage your condition. They can direct their ire at her then." - Old-Mention9632
"Here's what you're going to do. You're going to call up or physically go to one of your doctor's offices. Then you're going to say you can't find your insurance card and ask if they can please send you the insurance info, showing you both sides of the card they photocopied and have in their records."
"Then you're going to go to the pharmacy where you get your medication and tell them the same thing."
"Once you have your insurance information, you are going to make an appointment with a new doctor who is on the insurance plan if you feel your mom is controlling your interactions with your old doctor. And you are going to get yourself treatment over which you have control."
"Your mom has no right to any of your medical information unless she is your medical conservator, and I'm assuming she's not. Your doctors are not allowed to talk to her about your healthcare. Your pharmacy is not allowed to withhold your medication based on her say-so. The decision is yours."
"Take advantage of the time your family is away on vacation to begin to take charge of your own health care. to Your mother is committing medical abuse. This is illegal. If she continues to make it impossible for you to take needed medication, call an abused adult hotline right away to get help."
"BPD is very treatable with medication and therapy. You have to stay on top of it, but you can have a wonderful, fulfilling life. The whole nobody wants you on vacation thing is cruel, and I'm sorry it's happening to you. But you're an adult now. It's time to think about more education or vocational training that will let you have a career that lets you support yourself comfortably away from your family of origin."
"You get to pick your partners and your friends and to build a nuclear family of your own when you're ready. You get to spend vacations with friends and family you choose as you become self-supporting and self-sufficient. You get to leave people who don't treat you well in the dust behind you."
"BPD will not prevent any of this from happening. NTA." - Nester1953
But others hoped this moment would be a wake-up call for the OP.
"You're not an AH for being upset; that's natural. But if your family doesn't want you to come, then it's because you've been an AH in the past and ruined trips for them before, BPD or no."
"You're going to have to figure your own medical stuff out and then prove to them that you are working on it before you're welcome again."
"Just a note, my SIL has BPD, and while everyone has bent over backward to be understanding, no one wants her around anymore either because every conversation is like walking through a minefield, and the tension is too much for anyone to enjoy themselves."
"So, the past four years, no unnecessary contact. Everyone is happier."
"NAH at the moment." - Fangehulmesteren
"Even if you have a mental illness, you are still responsible for your actions and how it affects those around you. I know it's not easy, but it means getting treatment."
"I'm concerned that the mother has control of OP's meds and insurance, and I'm glad that OP will be contacting the pharmacy." - Emotional-Elephant88
"Never mind about a**hole: If you have mental health so serious that nobody in your family wants to spend time with you, then that's what you need to work on."
"The fact that you said, 'I definitely got very upset and started yelling,' is a big hint about why your family doesn't want you around."
"Seriously, I can understand why you feel offended, and I can understand why they would like a break from being yelled at." - SushiGuacDNA
"OP is a legal adult and perfectly capable of calling her doctor to make an appointment to get her meds. Likewise, her prescription bottle will have the prescription number, the prescribing physician, and all relevant information needed to contact both the pharmacy and the doctor about getting her prescription refilled."
"My guess is Mom is not withholding information but rather has told OP multiple times, and OP simply doesn't listen or chronically defers blame on other people." - Adventurous-Try1728
"My family went through this with my sister to the point where we refuse to spend holidays and vacations with her ever again. She has ruined every single one we have ever had and caused massive family issues."
"We have tried to get help together as a family, one-on-one, as each member of the family is with her and each doing our own counseling. She refuses to participate. She says if we make her go, she will lie and 'make us look so bad, the doctors will lock you all up.'"
"And yes she has made up horrific lies, lies that have even caused a suicide (not family) before so we believe her when she threatens it. She is in her 40s and refuses medication for her BPD because she feels she 'shouldn't have to take medications to change who she is, we should just accept who she is and learn not to trigger her.'"
"Triggering her consists of letting our six-year-old niece go first on a ride or complimenting another woman. We have been trying to help her since she was 14 and have never gotten anywhere. Our mom's hands shake when she calls."
"We took a family vacation a few months ago and she did everything at every step to wreck it. She didn't even last 20 minutes before she started losing it on everyone, running out into the neighborhood screaming about how no one loves her and then coming back telling us it's our fault because we asked everyone where we wanted to go for dinner when we should have just asked her and gone with what she chose."
"Then she threw a fit every single night because she wanted to change rooms each night. She threw a fit because a woman was wearing a short skirt around her husband in public, and that was my mother's fault, apparently for paying for the holiday for all of us. She posted on Facebook that we weren't letting her leave the place we rented and that we all went out to have fun while she was locked in which was absolute bulls**t."
"We ended up canceling half the events we had planned because she 'was triggered' and didn't want her to feel left out then she freaked out at the last minute because suddenly she wanted to go and none of us were ready to jump out the door at that second."
"My other sister and I refuse to ever vacation with her again. We have a family trip booked for next year and she's not invited. So, OP, with that perspective in mind, I can't cast immediate blame on your family for how they feel about vacationing with you. You may not be at fault for having mental health issues, but having mental health issues is not a free pass for others to have to put up with being treated badly. NAH." - TiptoeStiletto
"This is exactly my experience with my SIL as well. She went to therapy for years alone, making up crazy stories about her whole family. Every time a doctor got anywhere near a diagnosis, she'd move on to another one."
"The lies and mental games tore the family apart for years, and everyone gets tense the moment she enters a room because if you as much as greet her the wrong way, don't immediately stop whatever you're doing to become a psychic and do whatever she expects you to do, she'll have a complete rage fit about how no one loves her and how we all hate her and purposefully exclude her from whatever she has fixated on that time."
"And afterward, she'll have a completely different account of what happened than everyone else in the room. If she screams at everyone and then cries, she'll have a story about how you screamed at her and made her cry."
"After being raged at like that for X amount of times, the accusations of you not loving her and purposefully excluding her become true. And our pity for her has become less than our resentment."
"People with these personality traits can be absolutely traumatizing to be around."
"I would not be surprised for a second if OP is lying about the meds or having a completely distorted view of reality on the matter." - Avonda-Starlighter
After receiving feedback, the OP shared a brief update.
"I'm getting a lot of questions about why exactly I can't get control of the meds. My mom won't give me my insurance information, and obviously, I'm not on my own insurance, but I've been trying to get the info."
"I'm taking your advice, and I will be getting ahold of my pharmacy when I get home this coming week!"
While the subReddit could understand that not being invited was hurtful, they saw it in one or two ways: either the family wasn't worth spending the holiday with, or the OP was more insufferable than she was letting on, diagnosed or not.
But one thing was certain: the OP needed to be on regulated medication, whether she was capable of being in charge of it or not. Having that withheld from her would be a form of medical abuse, though some questioned if these details were part of the story she was creating about how her family was against her.
Either way, the family clearly had to work through some issues and either find a better way to coexist or they needed to create some distance.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp