Content warning: suicide.
We've all been through some tough things in our lives, and sometimes, it's super obvious to us whose fault it is that we're going through this tough time.
But as it turns out, there are times when it isn't that person's fault at all, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Looking back at her childhood, Redditor Expensive_Page_8666 was certain that it was her sister's fault that her childhood had been messed up, because everything had changed when she dated her boyfriend.
She was so sure about this, the Original Poster (OP) contemplated not even attending her sister's wedding because of her hatred of that boyfriend, now her fiancé.
She asked the sub:
"WIBTA (Would I Be the A**hole) for telling my sister I won't attend her wedding because I hate her fiancé?"
The OP never liked her sister's boyfriend, Mark.
"My sister, Brooke (32 Female), has been together with Mark (32 Male) since freshman year of high school."
"As far as I (25 Female) understand it, they did not want to get married initially because Brooke is vehemently child-free, and Mark agrees with her, but they have decided to hold a wedding and commitment ceremony next spring after a lot of years of back and forth."
"The problem is, I've known Mark since I was a kid (he started coming around to the house a lot when he and Brooke were sophomores in high school, so I was eight or so when I first met him as Brooke's boyfriend), and I have basically hated him the whole time."
"I've tried to be polite, particularly now that we are all adults, but I just don't want to go to the wedding of my sister and the guy she's always put before her family."
The OP believed that Brooke and Mark were at fault for what went wrong in her childhood.
"As an example, when Brooke and Mark started dating, Brooke went from eating dinner at home with the rest of us every night to going out two or three times a week with Mark and his friends."
"This was against our parent's rules and caused a lot of arguments that negatively impacted both me and our younger sister Jenny (now 22 Female), who was barely in kindergarten at the time and didn't understand what was going on."
"Brooke and our parents started fighting basically every night, and it was incredibly disruptive to our home life. My sister went from being my best friend to a stranger, and Mark was the one encouraging it."
"The stress of those years was so bad, I had to repeat fourth grade (failed math), and I was bullied really badly for that. I stopped going to school looking nice because there was so much tension in the home that no one was paying attention to whether or not I had clean clothes."
"Jenny also struggled academically and socially but I was able to step in and help her more with things like getting dressed and packing her lunch, so she doesn't remember those years as negatively as I do."
The negativity continued as Brook went off to college.
"Of course, as soon as Brooke and Mark graduated, he convinced her to move across the country to go to college."
"Our parents were really hurt by this and there were a few years where she didn't come home over Christmas or summers."
"Eventually, things cooled down when I was in high school and Brooke started making more contact with our family, but Mark would do things like glare at our parents over the dinner table and suddenly declare that it was time for them to go."
The OP wasn't sure she wanted to be involved in Brooke's next chapter.
"I don't think I should have to go to the wedding of my sister and this guy who stole her from us, and I am planning on RSVPing 'no' when the time comes."
"Our family has been minimally involved in wedding planning, and I am not in the bridal party or anything like that (they are all friends of Brooke and Mark's from the hospital where they work)."
"WIBTA? (Would I Be the A**hole?)"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP she'd ruin her relationship with her sister by not attending.
"I'm 'Mark' in this case. My husband is from an old-school Eastern European family and he is the firstborn and only boy."
"When we started dating, I really encouraged him to grow, become autonomous, and have a voice, because growing up, he was basically made to feel like his feelings didn't matter and he just needed to do what he was told."
"His family (parents and sister) did NOT respond well and have blamed me for EVERYTHING. We've been together 12 years now and my husband basically has no relationship with his sister anymore and is in low contact with his parents as a direct result of how they've treated me and our relationship."
"OP is headed for a no or low contact situation if he doesn't lay off her poor sister and work on being a better family member. Oh and YTA big time, OP." - NotTheOne_88
"Soooo... Your parents have basically neglected you and your little sister because they were fighting with their eldest and you blame her boyfriend? Wow."
"He didn't 'steal' your sister from her family. He didn't force her to fight with your parents. They created an unhealthy environment and made her choose."
"YTA. But sorry for you s**tty childhood, you deserved better." - VanillaSenior
"My sister and I are in our 40s. When I was 15, she was 12, and I didn't wanna hang out with her. At the time, this really hurt her feelings, but now, we have talked about it and she said, we were in different developmental stages and it made sense for a 15-year-old to not want to hang out with a 13-year-old."
"Now that we're 40 and 43, we're each other's best friends. You could have had that too, except you refuse to acknowledge that it's normal for a 15-year-old to break away from the family as they try to be independent and not want to hang out with a child."
"Your parents suck if they let typical teen s**t stop them from taking care of their two younger daughters. YTA. Your sister and brother-in-law are the only non-a**holes in this scenario." - McJazzHands80
"You don't have to go if you don't want to, but YTA for blaming all your family's problems on Mark."
"It sounds like there was fighting because Brooke wanted some freedom and space, and I can see why if you guys are still trying to guilt her for leaving for college and blaming any problem you have on her relationship. Your parents' neglect is their own fault, not Mark's."
"Mark didn't 'steal' her from you guys, she doesn't belong to you. Brooke wanted to get some distance from her family and it sounds like it's probably the healthiest thing for her, to be honest." - jennnjennjen
Others empathized with the OP and realized she'd been trained to think this way.
"NAH. My younger siblings felt the same way you do a few years ago. They saw me causing rifts in the family. All they knew was that every time I was home there was gonna be fighting."
"But what they didn't see, was the years of abuse that led up to that. They didn't see my depression and suicidal thoughts and actions. They didn't recognize that I was simultaneously parentified, but also made the scapegoat of the family. They didn't see that those arguments and his screaming and throwing things were only because I finally started standing up for myself for the first time in my life."
"We have since been able to talk through it, and we have all cut off contact with the sperm donor and have great relationships with each other now."
"The way you feel is completely understandable, and it's a really common dynamic. But if you had a conversation with her about it, I think you might learn a lot." - Daisy_Marie_W
"NAH. It sounds like Brooke was acting like your typical teenager, and for some reason, you are blaming her normal teenage development for things that happened around childhood. Maybe those things were your parents' fault, and maybe they weren't, but they definitely weren't your sister's fault or her boyfriend's fault." - CreatrixAnima
"This reads strangely to me... You failed math because your teenage sister started having dinner with her boyfriend? Your sister was a teenager. That's just something that teenagers do. If anything, it seems like you should be angry at your parents."
"I'm going to say NAH only because if you really believe that your sister caused all this pain, you are in dire need of some counseling."
"But you should not be treating her and her fiancé like that. I fail to see how they have done anything wrong (besides Brooke maybe having a bit of a rebellious streak when your parents had unreasonable rules, which does not at all justify years of anger)." - cajolinghail
"NAH. I could've written this post, holy crap. I went through the SAME THING with my older sibling suddenly breaking away from the family and causing all the backlash to fall on me and my younger siblings. My parents had no one to lose their s**t on except for all the rest of their children stuck in the house as captives."
"The thing was, my sibling was doing normal teenage things, and the real issue was our crazy parents. I even knew that at the time, but d**n it if I didn't still absolutely hate and resent the s**t out of them for it."
"I have no advice other than therapy. I've been through therapy, and I'm still establishing boundaries and working to accept my feelings about the past. Boundaries might be helpful for you as well to establish yourself outside of the family dynamic that it sounds like you are still a part of."
"This is not a black-and-white problem where a single person (Mark) is at fault. It's a collection of everyone (parents, sister, Mark) making bad decisions for years where you were the one taking on the fallout. Figure out which bad decisions you are able to forgive and let yourself feel what you need to for the ones you can't." - TheSkinnyJeans
After receiving feedback, the OP's eyes were opened to the realities of her home life.
"I am getting a lot of feedback that Brooke was potentially parentified. If anyone has recommendations for podcasts or books about that, I would appreciate it."
"I think I need to learn more about her experiences before I decide about the wedding since we used to be close, and it would be unfortunate to lose the relationship entirely (which is what some commenters think will happen if I skip the wedding). Thank you."
"But also, please stop attacking my parents. They have their faults, but they did not have many resources when we were young."
"It's important to me to support them now that they are older and can't work, but I also want to support Brooke and understand better now that I have not been handling this in a mature way."
"I will be apologizing to her and asking for more of her perspective on things from our childhood. I'm going to stop reading now, but I appreciate your help. Thank you."
The subReddit could understand that the OP was going through something, but they could all agree that what she was going through had nothing to do with her sister and future brother-in-law.
Rather, this was related to the family dynamic that she grew up in and was taught to believe was normal. If she talked to her sister and listened to her side of the story from those earlier years of dating Mark, the OP might realize that attending her sister's wedding would actually be a no-brainer.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp