Divorce and child custody battles can drag on forever and can make bitter enemies of everyone involved.
They are also outrageously expensive.
And in the end, oftentimes, the children are the ones who lose the most.
Redditor Eva_and_Logan wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback, so they came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
They asked:
"AITA for refusing to give money to my brother to save his daughter?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I refused to give $100,000 to my brother to fund his legal custody battle."
"My brother called out of the blue one day."
"We've been living in different countries for many years, and we're often not in touch."
"He has been going through a divorce and custody battle for a long time."
"The divorce is really ugly."
"Both he and his ex-wife are extremely similar being stubborn, argumentative, and always need to be right."
"They are both ex-army."
"So my brother asks for $100,000."
"Specifically, it's for the newest set of lawyer's quotes to conduct a last all-out custody battle."
"He explains it as a military strategy, explains it's a last stand, and explains it's about showing strength."
"According to his new lawyers, it is completely un-winnable, not recommended, a waste of time, and he is better off accepting the hard truth and saving the money."
"I personally agree with the lawyers based on what I was told by my brother."
"Yet he insists it's the only thing left to do."
"He also said there was no way he could pay it back."
"My view was, if it's life or death then yes, but it's not, and it would only hurt everyone making this last stand."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA for this?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Reddit declared that OP was NOT the A**hole here.
"As a former divorce attorney, this was the right move OP."
"At one time or another, I too had clients that denied the obvious and wanted to wage hopeless battles."
"Usually, I tried to counsel them to negotiate for the good of the kids."
"If they refused, then I'd often quote a *large* retainer in the hopes they couldn't/wouldn't pay it, and they'd either settle or go away and leave me alone."
"Offhand, it sounds like this is what the attorneys have done with your brother, and he's not getting the message."
"If your brother wishes to use his resources to continue a battle, he can't win. That's his prerogative."
"If you don't want to fund it, that's yours. NTA." ~ Big_Wave9732
"NTA and your brother sound like a menace, to be honest."
"He doesn't care about his daughter cuz if he did, he wouldn't put her through that." ~ softanimalofyourbody
"So he just wants you to gift him $100k so he can essentially gift it to his lawyers?"
"He knows he's not gonna win so he doesn't want to waste his $ on it or go into debt for it but he has no problem asking you to do so."
"That's messed up."
"I work at a family law firm and have never heard of a $100k retainer for a custody case."
"The fact they are asking for so much upfront and saying he won't win tells me they don't want to represent him and are hoping he'll scoff at the amount and look elsewhere."
"I can't imagine asking someone for that kind of money, especially when he is very unlikely to get anything out of it."
"You are clearly not the AH, but your brother definitely is." ~ mosaic_heartsx
"NTA, the lawyers who have a stereotype of being money-hungry sharks told him not to do it."
"That shows just how futile his course of action is."
"Also, he literally said you wouldn't get your money back, so screw that." ~ Fntsyking655
"Divorce can make people act irrationally."
"It's really common for people to spend huge sums just to force their ex to spend similarly."
"Nobody wins but the lawyers."
"Any good lawyer will tell you this, even if they're still willing to take your money and fight it out."
"NTA and YWBTA if you gave him the money."
"You'd be throwing it away and prolonging the whole situation."
"It would be vastly better to just put that money in a trust for his kid." ~ TerminalVector
"Your brother wants $100,000 dollars from you to show his ex that he's a big, important man?"
"That's psychotic."
"Custody isn't supposed to be a pissing match; it's to determine what is best for the child(ren)."
"He doesn't seem to give a damn about his kid. NTA." ~ Fit_Base2089
"NTA! This ain't cancer treatment!"
"It's deciding where the best place a little girl should live, and nothing in your post makes it sound like a judge can't make a good decision about that right now."
"Save your money." ~ Next-Wishbone1404
"NTA. WTF does he mean 'showing strength?'"
"Custody is about the kids, not him."
"According to his new lawyers, it is completely un-winnable, not recommended, a waste of time and he is better off accepting the hard truth and saving the money"
"There is your answer."
"Save the money." ~ anonaparent52
"NTA. He knows he can't win (save) his kid."
"He just wants to force his ex into a stressful, expensive custody battle he can't win.'
"You didn't mention that this benefits the kid in any way, I'm guessing because he didn't provide how it would."
"Probably because it doesn't."
"This is about sticking it to his ex, but using your money."
"Hard no." ~ VegaofLyra
"My dad fought an un-winnable custody battle for me against my aunt and uncle after my mum passed."
"He knew it was un-winnable BEFORE he even got to the courthouse, and the judge pulled him aside and even asked if he really wanted to go through with a lost cause."
"The reason he fought was because there was a group of lawyers and family law court judges compiling cases to take the fight and get the precedent changed for dads to get more rights."
"My aunt worked for a barrister in the same building as some of those judges and they were able to work out a schedule so one of the judges who were involved (but couldn't legally represent my dad) would be sitting by a designated phone waiting for calls from my dad to help answer questions with the correct wording so they could use our case for theirs."
"If this was OP's brother's intentions, then I could understand his zeal, but not the cost from the lawyers (this is something that would be done probono because they would be 'hoping' to lose)."
"It's also something that the brother and OP would have mentioned and since as far as we know it isn't the case I agree, this isn't about what's best for the kid or helping future cases, it's solely about power and control and that makes OP NTA." ~ Environmental_Art591
"Your brother is ridiculous."
"He wants to lose $100K of your money rather than accept the amount of time he has with her and be the best father possible."
"He cares more about his ego than being a good dad."
"Even if he had a chance of winning, his attitude alone means it's a shi**y investment. NTA." ~ iseeisayibe
"NTA. Calling family after an extended period of no-contact, and asking for money you'll never be able to pay back is shi**y."
"Plus, sounds like you analyzed the situation (I assume you kept the details sparse here for privacy reasons), and determined he's fighting an unwinnable legal battle out of pride."
"Keep your money." ~ RedDeathStrikes
"NTA. His daughter isn't dying."
"She is probably being hurt by all this fighting, actually."
"Unless he thinks his ex is an unfit parent or she's trying to take her away entirely, he should listen to his lawyers and let go."
"He's not 'saving' his daughter, he's treating her like a conquest." ~ RasaraMoon
"NTA. Okay, so it's 100k out of your pocket, but it's also thousands of dollars from the mom's pocket in attorney fees that could be used to better the kid's lives."
"You made the right choice." ~ wolofancy
"NTA. You shouldn't have to fork out a ginormous amount of $$$ so your hard-headed brother can continue the power struggle with his ex-wife."
"You made the right decision."
"Your brother should see a proctologist to have his head removed from his posterior."
"I hope your niece doesn't suffer emotional health issues because of her parents feuding like two petulant three-year-olds." ~ ICatsmom
"OP your brother is implicitly showing that he wants -- more than anything -- to beat his wife in this custody battle."
"He wants to try to outspend her and force a better outcome and 'win.'"
"I doubt that thinking about what's best for a kid is high on his list."
"He may or may not be a better parent than the mom (she might be a piece of work, but you know your brother isn't focused on his kid at this point)."
"So is pissing away $100,000 of your money on a 'show of strength' for your brother a good idea?"
"Is it going to be better for his kid?"
"NTA if you choose not to waste money." ~ mumpie
"NTA, tell your brother he needs to do the best thing for the child and that means both parents come together for the good of the kid."
"Trying to one-up each other is the wrong thing to do." ~ FairyFartDaydreams
"NTA. If you have 100k lying around, put in a savings or investment account to pay for the children's therapy and an escape fund after they turn 18."
"Give them a safe place because this custody battle is going to traumatize them and their parents will only blame each other." ~ PDK112
"Tell him good military strategists know when to surrender, to live to fight another day... or just tell him to grow up, this isn't a war, it's about the child/ren. NTA." ~ Rare_Sugar_7927
"NTA, seriously these kids need help."
"Do you have the money to help them?"
"Forget your brother, reach out to their mother and ask if you can help get the kids some sort of therapy so they can be helped." ~ willthesane
"NTA. Your brother and his ex need to put their kids' welfare first and stop wasting money on lawyers." ~ cassowary32
"NTA. The firm is telling your brother they do not want the case."
"The $100k price tag is meant to discourage him from going forward." ~ Awkward_Pin_4978
"NTA. If you think he can't win and his lawyers don't think they can win, why is he fighting?"
"He needs to accept the loss and try to establish a relationship with his daughter when she is an adult."
"Your money isn't going to impress anyone." ~ Rendeane
Reddit agrees with you, OP.
Your brother is in a sad situation.
But you can't save him.
He needs to learn the word... compromise.
Compromise will help his daughter the most.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp