No matter how strong the relationship may seem, there is always baggage when it comes to being someone's second spouse.
When marrying a divorced parent with children, there is the pressure of whether or not your prospective step-children will accept you and welcome you into the family.
And even marrying a divorcé without children comes with complications, most notably the concern of why their first marriage didn't work out looming over your head.
When it comes to marrying a widow or widower, there is the sad question of whether or not you'll ever live up to the memory of their deceased spouse.
Redditor I-Dont-Know-Nothing1 was happy with her relationship, but always worried that her widowed boyfriend might have been looking for a replacement for his late wife.
Her fears became exacerbated when he finally popped the question, when her discomfort did not go unnoticed by her in-laws-to-be.
Worried she might have overreacted, the original poster (OP), took to the subReddit "Am I The A**Hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for being upset that my fiance proposed with his dead wife's ring?"
The OP first shared how her relationship was going extremely well, though she did often feel challenged by the memory of his late wife.
"My fiancé (26 M[ale]) and I (21 F[emale]) have been dating for 2 years."
"He honestly has been the best boyfriend and support person in my life."
"In the past, I honestly lost all my faith in men due to many bad experiences and he was the one to restore it."
"My fiancé been married before but his wife unfortunately passed away due to someone driving under the influence."
"My fiancé and my fiancé's family both described her as an amazing women who was basically a saint."
"Sometimes I feel like I am compared to her and even get comments from my fiancé family members that I look and sound like her."
"It sometimes makes me if little uncomfortable, because I'm not her replacement."
"I always knew that my fiancé kept some of her belongings, including her engagement and wedding ring and, I've always been okay with it, but I never expected for him to actually propose to me with her ring."
When her fiancé finally proposed, it turned out not to be the joyous occasion the OP hoped it would be.
"When he proposed, he organized a family picnic to announce my pregnancy and honestly I've never seen a picnic so fancy before."
"Everything was perfect, my and his family were both there."
"But when he proposed, I saw that the ring he chose was his deceased wife's ring, and I was a little taken back."
"I hesitated before I said yes, and his sisters and mom noticed."
"Later on, his sisters and mom questioned me about it as if they were some kinda interrogators and I was honest."
"I told them I felt uncomfortable being proposed to with his deceased wife ring, and I felt that it belonged to her and not me."
"They told me that my fiancé wanted to pick a meaningful ring, and nothing spoke to him but his deceased wife's ring."
"I answered back saying that I would've been happy with any ring, even if it was a freaking ring pop candy, but something doesn't sit right with me being proposed to with his dead wife's ring."
"They ended up telling my fiancé, and now he's been being a little distant ever since."
"I love him and don't want this to ruin our relationship."
"I understand he's still hurt about his wife dying, but sometimes I feel like he's trying to replace her with me and I can't be her because I'm me."
"Am I the asshole for being upset?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not the A**hole
- YTA – You're the A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everybody Sucks Here
The Reddit community agreed that the OP had every right to feel uncomfortable by being proposed to with the ring of her fiancé's late wife, and was not the a**hole.
Most everyone agreed that the OP's fiancé did seem like he was trying to replace his late wife with her, and that the two of them needed to have a very serious conversation, with some even wondering if the OP should stay in this relationship.
"NTA."
"You both need to really discuss this."- No_Load1682
"NTA."
"This is the beginning of a V.C. Andrews novel & it's not ok."- twoofheartsandspades
"NTA it sounds like he is replacing you."
"Have you seen pictures of her?"- murphy2345678
"NTA."
"I'm not sure what the solution for this might be, but he needs to understand how you're feeling about this, and that you feel like you're being compared to a ghost instead of being seen for who you are."
"It may not be intentional, hell he may not even realize he's doing it, but he needs to know that's what's happening."
"And if he can't accept that... maybe it's time to reevaluate some things or look into some therapy to help you talk it out."
"Also... no, just no with the dead wife's ring."
"That reminds me of the wedding scene in 'Beetlejuice' only super creepy."- Kytrinwrites
"NTA."
"By proposing with his dead wife's ring, it certainly seems like he's trying to replace her with you."
"That ring should be a memory of his late wife, not something he should want to see on the hand of anyone else."
"You're not a walking memorial."- Kindly_Reward_8537
"NTA, and a little naive."
"Y'all got together when you were 19, and he was 24 and a widower."
"He is absolutely trying to replace her."
"If you weren't pregnant I would say rethink the entire relationship."- mzpljc
"NTA."
"The ring should be special to YOU too, not just him."
"He can keep his sentimental jewelry somewhere in his belongings, and you should be able to choose a new one together with no history attached to it."- inkognito_burrito
"NTA."
"It sounds like he's still grieving his past wife."
"How did you even know it was the old ring?"
"Has he been showing it to you before the proposal?"- loumerloni
"The ring is meant to represent your relationship and your commitment."
"In your shoes I would have said no and likely lost it."
"How thoughtless!"
I" literally cannot think of any reason why someone would do this other than being cheap, or trying to replace their dead spouse with their new partner and just go about life as if the two were the same person."
"And both reasons are gross IMO."
"Especially when you would have been happy with candy and didn't need a diamond."
"NTA."
"I would consider couples counseling to get to the bottom of this, as there's a baby coming and just walking away doesn't sound like an option."- Cryptographer_Alone
"NTA."
"It feels like he's just trying to replace his wife."
"Like you said, he could have gotten you a ring pop."- WaywardPrincess1025
"NTA."
"Definitely would not expect anyone to be comfortable with being proposed to with the deceased ex's ring."
"It seems so obvious that I wonder how your fiancé and his family could fail to see it."
"Unfortunately it does make me wonder if he's ready to marry again."- Sweeper1985
"Yikes… NTA."- Own_Rule_650
"NTA at all."
"That's somehow highly inappropriate, and dare I say, disrespectful to both you and her."
"I think this is a clear sign that he's not ready to be married."
"Not to mention- I know you think you've been thru a lot with relationships, but you're only 21."
"You may want to step back and rethink this."- cinnamongrits
"NTA."
"My first red flag upon reading this was the ages."
"You were 19 when he was 24 and a widower."
"Your lives were in very different places."
"The age gap is not worrisome to me, more so the chapters of life that you two were in."
"It feels as if he is trying to replace his deceased wife and you are filling that void."
"I think it is important that you two talk about this, especially since you are pregnant with his child."
"Trust your instinct."-farmerjohnmissouri
At least one Redditor pointed out how both the OP and her fiancé are both still very young and have each been through a lot already, and might not be ready to enter into a marriage.
"Has it occurred to you that 'losing your faith in men' at 19 years old is exactly the kind of scenario that would lead you to picking a horrible partner?"
"Either you've been through extreme trauma as a teenager or you're still very immature or emotionally stunted."
"Are you sure you're ready for marriage and kids at 21?"
"Are you sure this guy is the best you can do?"
"Do you not want to ever be your partners' equal?"- ughwhyusernames
It does seem like the OP's fiancé still hasn't quite gotten over the death of his first wife
And losing a spouse at such a young age, who can blame him?
But for this marriage to be successful, this is something which he and the OP will need to address.
Ideally with a therapist, and especially before their child is born.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp