The urge to cling to the way things were can be a powerful force.
Whether we're thinking about an old relationship, or the town we grew up in, or the age our kid no longer is, it can be tempting to close our eyes and just pretend nothing has changed.
Unfortunately, that doesn't always work out well.
So, what happens when the child grows up entirely too quickly for the parents approval but not everyone is so keen on clinging to the past?
This was the issue facing Redittor and Original Poster (OP) ThrowRAsister_fight when she came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit to seek outside opinions.
She asked:
"AITA for taking away the bra that my Sister bought for my Daughter?"
OP began with the background.
"I (35 Female) have a sister named 'Marcy' (35F) and a daughter named 'Jess' (14F). Jess and Marcy get along very well and they love hanging out together."
"About 6 months ago, Jess started telling me that she wanted to get some new bras."
"She told me that the ones she has now are too 'babyish.' I've tried taking her shopping online and in person, but she never finds any that she likes."
"She always says that the ones I suggest are for little kids and she wants a woman's bra."
"Yesterday, Marcy and Jess were spending the day together."
Everything was fine, until...
"After Jess got home, I noticed that she had a plastic bag. Before I could ask her what it was, she quickly went into her room."
"My Mommy senses were going off and I knew that she was hiding something. I went to her room and asked her what was in the bag."
"She tried to dodge the subject and come up with weak explanations. I ended opening the bag and inside was a Victoria's Secret bra."
"I was shocked because this bra looked like lingerie and it was obviously very sexy/revealing."
"I demanded to know where Jess got the bra. She told me that her and Marcy went to the Mall after getting lunch."
"Jess was going on and on about how I never let her get the bras that she likes. Jess pointed at Victoria's Secret and talked about how she always wanted a bra from there."
"Without hesitation or permission from me, Marcy just bought Jess the bra."
"I was furious that Marcy would buy my daughter something like this without talking to me."
"I went outside and called Marcy to get her side of the story. She basically told me that it was her money and she could buy whatever she wants."
"She also said that I was holding Jess back and treating her like a baby. I snapped and told her that she had no right to buy my daughter a bra like that without my permission."
"I eventually told Marcy that I would give her the bra so she could return it."
"She told me that she already got rid of the receipt, so she can't get her money back."
"I told her that I would just donate it instead then. Marcy flipped out and demanded that I pay her back for the bra."
"I told her to f*ck off! I'm not paying her back for something that she had no right buying."
"Now Jess is giving me the silent treatment and Marcy blocked my number."
OP was left to wonder.
"AITA?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for some outside thoughts.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: YTA
Some recommended OP look at this from her daughter's perspective.
"YTA."
"Your daughter is going through a very transitional time period in a girl's life- where she starts to really feel like a woman."
"You are denying her something she is asking for, something she feels she needs."
"It's a bra."
"No one is going to see it except her, so who cares what it looks like. If you get rid of it, she'll resent you for it."
"Plus, you went through the bag without her permission. Great way to build trust with your daughter."
"Don't be surprised when she starts hiding other things from you." ~earthbornartemis
And,
"The daughter is probably not the only person who sees her bras."
"If Jess has a PE class or is in a sport or goes to a sleepover, she's probably self-conscious that she's stuck in training bras while all her friends and classmates are wearing fitted, shaped, pretty bras."
"I doubt she cares about looking good for boys. She likely wants to fit in with her friends and talk about lacy bras with them. She's growing her interests age appropriately.
"OP, your daughter is growing up and has boobs now."
"She needs to be a teen and you need to accept that. Jess wants to wear bras that make her look her age."
"A mother buying her daughter a Victoria's Secret bra is a huge coming of age moment. That's why your sister didn't think to ask you first."
"Also, developmentally your daughter might be needing a more supportive bra that those kid bras (and I know the ones) aren't able to provide. She's still your baby but not a baby anymore."
"YTA." ~ ciaoamaro
Others took issue with OP's word choice.
"When OP referred to her 'mommy senses going off' I may have thrown up in my mouth a little."
"She definitely thinks of her daughter as a young child not a young woman who is barely 4 years away from being able to move out." ~ kaleighdoscope
Or,
"Oh Lord, I am happy I'm not the only one!"
"My mom is great, but she wasn't so great years ago."
"Ever since I was 7 or so, until 15, she was sort of paranoid that I was plotting something behind her back (what exactly, I have no clue)."
"She read my diary, which I very quickly gave up on, went through the letters I exchanged with my best friend, snooped through my folders on our family computer, etc..."
"This 'mommy senses' bit gave me flashbacks of that time. 'You are up to something, I can feel it!'."
"Yes, mom, I watched Silence of the Lambs with my friends, although I knew I wasn't supposed to."
"What a betrayal." ~ CarolynEarle
There were calls for OP to try and repair the damage she'd done.
"YTA I think you should take a beat, then try to apologize to Jess."
"Take her shopping at Victoria's Secret (or Aerie! They have comfortable styles) and make sure she gets what she needs."
"That might include sports bras too."
"I would hope the shopping experience could be fun, and something you can both enjoy for years to come!"
"Some of my best tween memories are hitting the nearest Marshall's and then having lunch."
"I just really hope you can connect with her on this and have a fun shopping day. I don't want this lacey bra incident to make Jess pull away from you" ~ miscegeniste
Also,
"I think you have the right idea: repair is needed here."
"Personally I don't think it's treating your kids as property to make decisions about what is age-appropriate."
"Like, the sexiness of the bra doesn't matter. The daughters security in her sexuality and self-confidence and relationship with her mother is more important."
"I think the aunt should have teamed up with mom instead of not even having a convo about it."
"I also think mom and daughter seriously need to go bra shopping together and find a lot of things they agree on and what is comfortable."
"As much as we can all agree on how feeling attractive is at 14 and beyond, I wish my mother took time to explore that with me and make sure I knew I didn't need to meet anybody's criteria to be worth something." ~ MorphinOrphan
Commenters also had trouble following OP's logic.
"A revealing bra??"
"OP, if someone is seeing you in your bra, you're already doing some revealing. Why on earth does a bra need to be not revealing?"
"I think you're being a little prudish with this 'omg it's sexy bra!' thing. What is wrong with her having a pretty or feminine or flattering bra?"
"If she wants to get down to underwear with someone, she's probably gonna whether she has a tween bra or a Vic Secret one, so it's not like you can control things via what underwear she wears."
"And the truth is (backed by research), most women wear pretty underwear to feel good about themselves and boost confidence, not because they expect anyone else to see it."
"Do your daughter the respect of letting her make choices."
"I don't really see that Marcy needed permission to buy your daughter a practical thing that she both wanted and needed just because you have strange hangups about what your daughter wears." ~ Left-Car6520
The urge to cling to the way things were can be a powerful force.
It is vital, though, that we accept that the people we love will grow and change and develop in new, interesting ways.
We have to see them for who they are—not who we remember them being.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp