We're all adults here, and we all have our own ideas about how a relationship should go.
We envision what a healthy relationship would look like and how significant others can support each other.
But what qualifies as a deal-breaker, that's where we start to disagree. How far can a significant other go before the relationship is beyond salvageable?
This was the question one man struggled with on the "Relationship Advice" subReddit after he discovered his brother had been cheated on by his fiancée during her own bachelorette party.
But seeing as how it wasn't his relationship on the line, Redditor ThrowRABrotherIsDumb turned to the subReddit, looking for suggestions on how he could remain faithful and supportive to his brother.
The Original Poster (OP) asked the sub:
"How do I (27[male]) support my brother (29[male]) and his marriage after his fiancée (27[female]) cheated during her bachelorette party?"
The OP was all for the engaged couple until the bachelorette party.
"I'll try to keep this as brief as possible and for anonymity, I will refer to my brother as 'Jack' and his fiancée as 'Jill'."
"My brother Jack and his fiancée Jill have been together for about 4 years and engaged since early 2019. I really liked them together and felt that Jill was the first 'marriage material' girlfriend that my brother dated."
"The wedding was planned for earlier this year but was canceled indefinitely after it was discovered that Jill cheated during her bachelorette trip 5 months before the wedding."
"She had no intention of ever telling him but he found out when he saw a text from a friend of hers that was on the trip. The text basically said, 'I don't know how I can stand up in front of your families and give a toast after what happened.' After a few days of trickle truths and arguing, it came out that Jill had sex with someone while drunk."
With the news of what had happened, the OP's brother broke off the wedding.
"Jack was devastated and called off the wedding immediately."
"They broke up and about a month later Jack was in a new city with a new job. This seemed like the best possible scenario since he was away from her and had new things to keep his mind busy."
That is, until a few weeks later.
"Well, that lasted all of a few weeks and slowly Jill was getting back into his life."
"Now, a little over a year after 'the incident' she has moved in with him in his new city and just last week they became re-engaged."
"WHAT?!"
Since the couple reunited, the OP has struggled.
"I have absolutely no respect for Jill (or any cheater for that matter) and I don't understand how Jack can see past what she did. There is no excuse for cheating and to do it during a bachelorette party shows you have no respect for your partner or potential marriage."
"The first time I saw Jill after she cheated (which was at a family holiday only TWO months later), I was a little nasty and got scolded by Jack and my mother."
"From that point forward I have basically given Jill the 'grey rock' treatment. I don't engage with her unless she says something first and when I do talk to her, my answers are short."
Now the OP isn't sure what to do long-term to help his brother.
"I assumed that they were doomed to fail and I would just have to put up with her until Jack finally came to his senses."
"Now that they are re-engaged, it looks like I am going to have to put up with Jill longer than I expected and I'm not sure I can keep up the grey rock routine. There are only so many 'yeah, uh huh's' left in me before I snap and say 'hey, remember when you f**ked that guy?!'"
"My question is how can I be supportive of my brother and his marriage when I have no respect for his partner whatsoever?"
Fellow Redditors wrote in anonymously, puzzling out how to navigate the OP's brother's fiancée's recent infidelity.
Some reminded the OP that it's the brother's decision to forgive and forget, not the OP's.
"I learned it through personal experience, you're looking at it as an outsider, not invested in the person nor the relationship. Your brother forgave her. You can be mad til the sun stops shining but it still stands that he's willing to spend his life with her, whatever his reasons."
"You either make peace with it or say goodbye to your brother. I was the one who stopped supporting a relationship because the guy was living 2 lives with 2 gfs (girlfriends). I always made it very vocal. The girl who was with the guy eventually started hanging out with me less and less cause guess what, she had chosen to stay with the guy and I was effectively judgy towards her partner."
"Rule of thumb in general, you can never win against a partner. Ever. I know no matter what people say about mine, I have my mindset on stuff even when I ask advice."
"Don't make yourself the enemy. It's not your life. You're not marrying her. Leave it." - throw_ra_help_010
"Honestly..... you can't stop stupid."
"Your brother is making a huge, stupid mistake.... but you really can't do much outside of handcuffing him in the basement until he comes to his senses (the Black Snake Moan method)."
"Just be ready for when he inevitably calls when she cheats again." - SalsaRice
"I agree with this comment. OP is basically doing all [he] can do, and eventually [he'll] just have to focus on [his] own life and move on from this (moving on doesn't mean forgiving/forgetting - it means not letting it be a focal point in your brain)."
"[His] brother has made his choice, and either [he] supports him or she doesn't. There's not really anything more to it. OP isn't obliged to forgive or be friends with [his] future sister-in-law, but being cordial in the future is probably the bare minimum if [he] wants [his] brother in [his] life." - babylovesbaby
Others agreed and stressed that the OP could drive his brother away by holding a grudge.
"Infidelity can happen in any LTR (long-term relationship) or marriage. What couples do about it can either make them incompatible, break up, or learn how to repair their relationships and lead to a deeper bond."
"It's hard, you don't want to see him hurt again. So you're coming at this from a point of protecting your brother."
"But your method of protecting him is going to backfire because he's gonna have to put up boundaries with you around his relationship. You have a choice, you can either support him and let him know that you are worried, but you'll get a handle on your own worries - and will be there for him if s**t hits the fan again."
"Or you can make him run from you because you're going to put him in the impossible space of having to choose between his chosen partner and you. So your choice is, do you want to be there for him, or do you want to push him away."
"You don't have to like her. But your open hostility is going to leave your brother without the support he needs from you." - ProudPsychotic
"By being cold to his brother's soon-to-be wife, OP is forcing his brother to choose between OP and his wife. Of course he's going to choose his wife and distance himself from his brother. And then who does he go to when [and] if things go wrong with his wife?"
"My belief is, if you're close to the bride or groom and have a legitimate concern, you should voice it once, clearly and kindly and supportively, and then drop it and carry on as normal. Don't treat the spouse coldly, just do what you have to do to show you respect the bride or groom's decision." - Qwerky1928
"I think, for the most part, you're totally in the right for how you feel about Jill and what she did. At a certain point though, I think you will need to examine where the line is where your hatred of Jill begins to hurt your brother."
"You obviously despise her (I probably would too), and the pain she caused to your brother and family. However, life is messy and some couples sometimes reconcile, even after infidelity. If they stay together and their marriage is successful, at some point your hatred will be the thing hurting your brother as much as or more (if the pain fades over time) than Jill's cheating."
"Focus your energy on being there for your brother, rather than hating her. 'Grey rock' for now, but keep an eye out for your brother's best interests, since he's the one you want to support. If down the line, he decides he made a mistake getting back together with her, you can be the one to embolden him. However, if he really forgives her, it will be up to you to try to as well."
"If you're close with your brother, you may also want to talk to him honestly about what's going through his head right now. I'm sure he's confused, but there may also be layers to the story you don't know. Nothing that would justify the cheating, but perhaps something that would justify the forgiveness." - GeneralGuide
When we love someone, it's hard to see them get hurt. It's even harder when we have to watch them return to a situation we know in our hearts could hurt them again.
But we, like the OP, have to decide in those situations which is more important: convincing our loved one of the risks inherent to that situation and potentially driving them away, or showing our support and keeping our loved one close.
Woman Breaks Up With Boyfriend Who Worried People Would Think She Was Trans For Using Stand-To-Pee Device
Content Warning: Transphobia, Transphobic Comments
There are countless different reasons that a relationship might end, and a red flag could arise at any time. Some of these might have been learned in childhood and could improve over time.
Transphobia is absolutely a red flag that should be acted on immediately; however, with no option to fly again, pointed out the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor funnelfuss was in the car with her boyfriend when they got stuck in a traffic jam.
She really needed to use the restroom, so since she had a device with her to make the process easier, she decided she'd step out of the car.
But when her boyfriend panicked and thought people might mistake her for a man, the Original Poster (OP) realized that her boyfriend was not who she thought he was.
She asked the sub:
The OP had to use the restroom while stuck in a traffic jam.
"My (26 Female) boyfriend (25 Male) and I got stuck in an insane traffic jam. My boyfriend was driving."
"We were at a standstill. Found out later on, they had closed the highway."
"I had to pee really bad, like bad bad bad. I saw that a couple guys had run to the side of the road to pee, and I decided to do the same."
"It was super open, with a few bushes by the side of the road, really not much cover."
The OP's boyfriend became uncomfortable when he realized she had a pee-to-stand device.
"I have a stand-to-pee device in my car, but when I grabbed it, my boyfriend got all weird."
"He said people would see me pee standing up and think I was Trans."
"I said no one would think that, plenty of women have pee funnels, and that also I didn't care. I have no beef with Trans people!"
"He said I should squat, just to put his mind at ease."
"I said I didn't want to get my butt and c**ch out on the highway in front of everyone, or get pee on my shoes, and I just wanted to be quick and clean."
"He said he didn't want people to look at the girl he was dating and think she was Trans and that I should squat, like GIRLS do."
The OP decided she was over it.
"I was dying by this point. I couldn't hold it anymore, and I really didn't want to show the world my butt, so I ran to the side of the road and slipped the device into my jeans and just peed standing up with my back to traffic."
"No one could see anything; it just slides through the zipper. But I guess maybe if someone was looking, they would be confused? But also, who's LOOKING?!"
"When I got back to the car, my boyfriend wouldn't talk to me. He says I disrespected his feelings. But it was 100% an emergency, and I don't get what his problem was."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that there was nothing wrong with using the restroom how she wanted.
"OP, don't think for one more second about this. Your boyfriend is being ridiculous."
"As if you will ever see any of those people again! Plus, holding it in for too long can cause a whole host of issues."
"It's actually genius that you have something like that in your car, just in case. I'm going to order one too now! NTA." - m_alice88
"'Honey, please show all these strangers your c**ch and a** so they know I'm not gay, mmmm'kay?'"
"A weak man, a very weak man." - lefteyedcrow
"You must have a she-wee! Those are so great for women."
"Tell your boyfriend to get over himself. You had to pee. He does not understand that squatting can suck and leave you exposed."
"If he is that upset you did this, rethink this relationship. I would find it hysterical."
"NTA." - Oktodayithink
"NTA, OP. You just needed a makeshift restroom."
"Your boyfriend apparently thought that it was normal for people to stare at strangers who are trying to pee to evaluate who they are, who they're with, and what the status of their relationship is."
"You know, to pass the time while in gridlock traffic." - Pixichixi
"You did nothing wrong, OP! When you have to go, you have to go. It's healthier to go."
"And don't apologize! We're so wired to reduce conflict, even to the point of downplaying how we feel to keep the peace or end the silence. Don't do it."
"It's a him issue. He thinks his feelings on this are more important than your discomfort about showing your naked body on the side of the road. If he can't figure that out for himself and apologize, it would be a dealbreaker for me." - lelawes
Others agreed and pointed out that the ex-boyfriend was very transphobic.
"NTA. Your boyfriend is clearly transphobic. That is 100% on him. And who cares if people think you are Trans?"
"'He said he didn't want people to look at the girl he was dating and think she was Trans.' And you don't want people to think you're dating someone bigoted and hateful." - GreekAmericanDom
"He may not consider himself transphobic ('I don't hate Trans people! I just don't want to be associated with them or have anyone think I'm with a Trans person!'), but he absolutely is, probably with a healthy side helping of homophobia."
"Why would he care, unless a) Trans women are not women in his eyes, or b) it somehow would be emasculating or embarrassing to his ego to be with a Trans woman."
"Also, you're in a traffic jam. Who the f**k is even watching close enough to care, and who of those people matters enough to give two s**ts about what they think."
"Not to mention, he's being weirdly controlling about your behaviors and how they reflect on him in a scenario where arguably he's never going to interact with a single person he's worrying about." - maladicta228
"This post reminds me of the time I got dressed to go to a function. It was a casual gathering. My kid (this was solidly on their father, my ex, as he's gotten insanely bigoted as he's aged) said, 'Mom, you're dressed like a Lesbian.'"
"Me: 'Lesbians have great fashion sense, I'd love to be mistaken for one.'"
"They paused for a second and realized that I truly wasn't dressing for men (despite it being my husband's work function), and that being seen as a lesbian was a good thing. I'm so glad I raised them to think for themselves, and realize that one can be wrong, admit it, and work on being a better person every day. They've never said anything like that since." - baconbitsy
"He's so insecure (and transphobic) that he cares more about what some strangers in a traffic jam might wrongly assume about you (and thereby him) than YOUR needs, comfort, and health."
"He expected you to prioritize his insecurities (feelings) above that and then punished you when you prioritized your health."
"You sure you want to be with someone like that?? NTA." - molotovmerkin
"Your boyfriend is so transphobic that he wants you to expose your genitalia on the side of the road to prove that you're not a Trans woman because he can't stand the idea of a total stranger, in a neighboring car, whom he will never speak to or see ever again, thinking he MIGHT be SHARING A CAR (because the strangers in other cars have no idea that you're dating) with a Trans woman."
"You're NTA, but get a better boyfriend." - HighCsummer
"Literally, you have to be super transphobic to think people in traffic are gonna judge you if your girlfriend is standing to pee. Like come onnnnnn, this is some insane insecurity." - Responsible-Pickle-2
Some pointed out that not only was the ex-boyfriend transphobic, but also controlling.
"This won't be the last time he expects OP to sacrifice things or make her life worse so that she can conform to his ideal of feminine stereotypes and keep up appearances for his fragile masculine ego."
"And that he gave her the silent treatment for not obliging his transphobia and misogyny disguised as 'feelings' is also problematic." - blancamystiere
"He's insecure and transphobic. He also puts his insecurity and transphobia above your comfort."
"NTA, and honestly, you can do better than this specimen." - PetersMapProject
"NTA. Your boyfriend would have preferred for everyone to see your a** and vagina than have a random stranger think his girlfriend is Trans. He would rather you expose yourself for his personal gain."
"Get a better boyfriend." - Amaze-balls-trippen
"The transphobia? The insecurity? And the silent treatment when he doesn't get his way?"
"So many red flags!" - CarolynDesign
"He also puts his insecurity and transphobia above your comfort and safety."
"He would rather you invite unwanted attention and risk by exposing your private parts to the world than have people think he (who most of the onlookers couldn't even see) might be dating a Trans person."
"NTA. OP, he's too insecure, self-centered, and immature to be a good partner to you, given that he's willing to compromise your safety to avoid a single twinge of discomfort. Dump him." - Hari_om_tat_sat
After receiving feedback, the OP was reassured and shared some positive updates.
"UPDATE: Thank you, everyone, for helping me feel sane again!"
"I got quite a few questions about which device I use, and honestly, it's about what fits you best. There are a ton of options. It's what fits you. Check out pStyle, Freshette, and EllaPee."
"I tried peeing standing up in a toilet, and it worked fine. I think my aim was pretty good, but then I saw little droplets on the floor. No thanks, don't need that. Also, it's loud? Awkward."
"But for the outside, it's pretty fun! I drive a lot, that's why it was in my car. Lifesaver."
"Also, I guess in this case it brought out an ugly side of my (ex) boyfriend and clarified some stuff for me. A winner all around."
"And to all the commenters asking, YES, he is an ex-boyfriend now."
"And yes, there were other red flags."
"Ditched the man, kept the pee funnel. Gonna laugh at him every time I pee standing up."
There's no way to imagine just how awkward the rest of the car ride was after using the restroom and returning to the now-silent and very entitled boyfriend, still stuck in a traffic jam.
But fortunately for the OP, she learned something vital about her relationship during a moment that should have been a total non-issue.
By being concerned about this and expecting the OP to prioritize her ex's pride over her comfort, safety, and cleanliness, her ex told her everything she needed to know.