It's a rare relationship where an affair will not prove to be a dealbreaker.
But sometimes an affair may be the beginning of something new, side-eyed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
After Redditor TorontoMapleLeafs3's first wife had an affair with his brother, he was surprised that he was able to find another woman he wanted to have a relationship with.
But when his parents demanded that his brother be able to share in his happy day, the Original Poster (OP) had other thoughts.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for announcing the reason why I didn't invite my brother to my wedding and exposing him to the entire family?"
The OP struggled after the ending of his first marriage.
"I (30 Male) got married two weeks ago. I was married before but it ended after I found out that my older brother Thomas (34 Male) got involved with my first wife."
"It was devastating because we were close and had a great relationship. I also helped him so much while he was struggling and seeing how he repaid me hurts to this very day."
"I stopped talking to him and Mom and dad forced me to keep it a secret. Because I was too weak to argue with them, I just kept my own distance."
His family almost soured the beginning of his new happiness.
"Then I met my now wife. My family loved and embraced her as their own. My mom and dad treat her like a queen, which helped repair and solidify my relationship with them."
"However, as the wedding was approaching, they told me they expected me to invite Thomas."
"I, of course, refused, but they kept guilting me about what the relatives and other guests would think and say when they don't see Thomas there."
"I fought with them about it until the day of the wedding. It turned out they'd invited him behind my back, but I found out and stopped them in time."
The OP decided to take matters into his own hands.
"They came to the wedding looking p**sed, asking what we were going to tell people when they ask about Thomas."
"I told them I'd take care of it."
"And what I did was take a moment while everyone was paying attention, grabbed the mic, and flat-out announced this and said, 'The reason I didn't invite Thomas to my wedding is that I was worried he'd steal my now wife just like he stole the first one.'"
"I said it playfully to not make it sound so tense, but most of the guests looked shocked and started mumbling."
"Then it went awkwardly quiet for a moment, and then we moved on."
"I saw Mom and Dad walk out while looking at me grudgingly."
The OP's parents did not take well to the toast.
"Later, they started lashing out about how I just exposed Thomas and caused him to be shunned by the family in the most hideous of ways."
"I told them that I already said I didn't want him there, yet they tried to push him on me repeatedly by saying, 'what are people going to say,' so I told them the reason why he wasn't there in a playful way, but they (the guests) still got the message."
"Mom started yelling about how everyone will now look down on and shun Thomas."
"She called me pathetic and cruel for still punishing him and gradually ruining his life despite him apologizing and trying to reconcile."
"In my opinion? Some things are just unforgivable."
"We've been on horrible terms since then."
"My wife said at least now they're off my back about what people would say about not inviting him."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some thought it was important for the OP's brother to be held accountable.
"Seriously, the actions of OP's brother had consequences and now the actions of OP's parents had consequences too."
"He cheated with your first wife. Your parents blindsided you by trying to sneak in your brother. You would have never needed to make that statement if your parents didn't try to be sneaky."
"I would take it another step forward and tell your parents that if they continue to escalate the situation anymore, you will out your parents as accomplices to your brother/1st wife's infidelity. No actions towards injustice is just as guilty as the guilty party, in my opinion." - snazzyjazzy921
"Congratulations to you and your wife!"
"NTA. If they'd respected your wishes, it wouldn't have gotten to that point. Inviting him behind your back is just wrong."
"I can see how they'd want you and your brother to have a relationship, but your brother destroyed that, and it's up to you when or if you ever want to have a relationship with him again."
"Also, it sounds like they're probably more concerned about the shame of people knowing what he did, which is also not your problem." - HeldBackByGravity
"There were like a dozen different excuses they could have used. 'We are so sad Thomas couldn't be here but he has the virus/flu (insert any contagious illness).' They didn't have to resort to pressure and guilt."
"They shielded Thomas from the consequences of his actions by keeping it a secret all the while making OP feel that pain over and over again each time he had to pretend. The parents suck." - Athenas_Return
"It amazes me how so many people seem to think exposing evil behavior is worse than DOING the evil behavior." - Militantignorance
"Exposing crappy behavior and actions doesn't ruin reputations, it corrects reputations so that they're more accurate."
"Sweeping it under the rug because 'what will the cousins think of us' is exactly how abusers get away with stuff for so long and are able to find so many more victims, because the faćade of that person being nice and wholesome hasn't been shattered with the truth and they're able to convince new people to fall for their bulls**t." - Righthandedranger
"By trying to keep it on the down low, they didn't condemn the cheating and fully expected OP to forgive him for it."
"It also suggests they care a lot about the public image the extended family sees, which is also an AH move when it invalidates OP's feelings about his brother and ex-wife." - ScorchieSong
"NTA. Your brother brought it on himself."
"And your parents… Good grief! If that was how they repaid you in terms of repairing the relationship, then perhaps you are better off without them."
"And I don't often suggest NC (no contact)." - Delicious_Wish8712
But others were worried about this lesson happening on the OP's wedding day.
"You don't owe Thomas anything, but it was an inappropriate thing to do at your wedding, in my opinion. Not for Thomas' sake, but for your wife and yourself, taking the focus off your love and happy union onto past family drama." - snufflepagus7
"OP basically got up and threw down a drama bomb on their wedding day. Not only that, but how he said it kinda implies that he believes she can be 'stolen,' which makes it sound like he doesn't trust her or she doesn't have agency. On their wedding day."
"Unless she knew in advance and supported it, ESH but her." - bluedoor11-11
"OP: You were an a**hole towards your wife. Your parents were putting their own desires for stability ahead of your needs and you have no obligation to protect your brother's reputation after he betrayed you; however, that does not mean you can turn everyone's attention away from celebrating your marriage to instead focus on family drama."
"It was uncalled for and extremely rude to your wife. This is not even getting into your implication that your wife would willingly cheat on you with your brother."
"Your wedding day is about you and your wife. Unless you ran that speech by your wife first and received her approval, you were absolutely an a**hole toward her by making that statement. Even if your wife was not bothered by the statement, making that announcement without her prior approval is a d**k move."
"ESH." - DAC_Returns
"How deeply insulting to your wife to announce to both your families that you think she'd cheat on you with your brother if she ever got to meet him! That might not be what OP meant, but it's what he said."
"Not to mention the most talked-about moment of her wedding, within her family and friends who have no reason to know who Thomas even is, is going to be her new husband's trashy announcement about his first wife."
"I would be humiliated if my husband did something like that at our wedding." - Bananapanda123
"That announcement sounds so awkward and uncomfortable, it would steal all the attention on the wedding day."
"Like yes, people should know what the brother did, but I bet most of the guests will mainly remember the gossip about his first marriage instead of their wedding." - arsenal_kate
"Nothing says 'I love you' like airing your family's dirty laundry during your speech to your new wife. Wow, dude. Half the guests probably don't even know your brother, don't know the situation, and definitely didn't need to find out at the freaking WEDDING." - Weird-Roll6265
"As I read the announcement part, I cringed so much. This is gonna haunt OP in so many ways in the future. Dumb move." - NickDanger3di
While the subReddit was collectively appalled at what the OP's brother had done to him, and how his parents had attempted to cover it up, they were more divided on how the OP handled it.
Some thought it was right to expose his brother's infidelity and to hold him accountable. Others agreed, but perhaps not on the most memorable day of his relationship with his new wife, their wedding day.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp