Coming out is hard to do. Though it is now more significantly more accepted than it was even ten years ago, there is always some fear of how your family is going to react when you are finally honest with them about yourself.
Will they reject you? Will they accept you? Will they even care at all?
Reddit user Mediocre_Wallaby_921's brother ran into the opposite problem that most people coming out run into. His family didn't really react at all, just quietly accepted him.
After his brother took offense, Mediocre_Wallaby_921 reacted to how unfair he felt his brother was being. He went to the popular subReddit "Am I The A**hole?" or "AITA" to ask if his feelings were unjustified:
"AITA for taking my parent's side when my brother came out of the closet?"
Our original poster, or OP, set up the situation by detailing his brother's coming out:
"My family has always been liberal and have not been shy about other people knowing it. Like they would have the who they are voting for signs of the front porch."
"Everyone in the family is also fine with LGBT+ community and supports it."
"So my (16M[ale]) brother (19 M[ale]) came out as gay today to the whole family. My parents smiled and said congratulations and we will always love you/support him."
Afterwards, OP's brother felt the matter was not given enough attention:
"Then the whole thing was dropped and we moved on with our day. My brother has been angry that my parents didn't have a bigger reaction and has been giving them the cold shoulder."
When OP's brother came to OP for sympathy, he was sorely disappointed:
"He came into my room and was ranting to me about it. He wanted me to go with him to confront my parents that's when I said:"
"'Dude they don't care about who you like to bang, their response was fine. Isn't this the end goal, for people to not care about peoples sexual orientation and be treated the same."
"You know they support this, what kind of response did you want. Them jumping for joy? tears? being angry?'"
OP's brother did not take too kindly to this response:
"Well, he called me an a**hole and I wanted to know if I was?"
Redditors helped OP decide where guilt belongs by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Redditors definitely did not think OP was at fault. In fact, they weren't sure anybody was to blame.
"I feel like I can relate. I came out as bi to my mom. And I expected one of the two things."
"Either, I hate you, you're disgusting. Or, I love you, you're still my son and the hugs and stuff. What happened was, yeah I'm fine with it."
"I was kinda happy that my mom's okay with it, but also kinda disappointed there wasn't a bigger reaction."
"Maybe the pop culture media has made coming out into a very dramatic event. I can see your brother's POV but he's just being petty now. Your parents support him. What else does he want?"
"NAH."~adityaflashraj
"NAH. Even families who are liberal toward LGBTQ people as a concept can be surprisingly uncool when it's their family member coming out."
"Your brother probably spent a lot of time building that moment up in his mind and worrying about the outcome, and he probably hoped for a reaction commensurate with how emotional it was for him."
"That doesn't make him an a**hole, but it doesn't make the rest of you a**holes, either, for just being accepting and moving on."~yesnogoodbye
"Yeah this is one of those times where unless you've personally come out of the closet, I don't give a damn about your opinion."
"Like my family and friends are nothing but supportive. They all love my husband (probably more than me, lol). But I cried when I came out to my first friend. It's hard."
"Yes we do all want to get to that place where your sexual orientation isn't assumed to be hetero until said otherwise. But we're not there yet."
"The world is totally geared towards assuming all children are cisgendered, gender-conforming heterosexuals."
"Coming out isn't just a single thing. It's the culmination of accepting that you're different, and being comfortable enough with yourself to admit to other people you've been lying to them about who you are."
"NAH. OP was maybe a little unsympathetic, but I don't think he's an AH. But straight people don't get to dictate how gay people process coming out."~NovaNardis
"However liberal your family are, you never know how people are going to react when you come out to them. It was brave of your brother."
"When I came out, my parents reacted with an 'it's fine' and then in the following days/weeks made it pretty clear they didn't actually think it's fine."
"He's not the a**hole for wanting more support. But I can see how, as cishets, you may be surprised by this response."
"See if you can have another family conversation where you all congratulate him and look to get involved in LGBT organisations. NAH."~loxima
After all, coming out is no small feat-so the emotional crash from anticipation can be huge.
"NAH. Coming out is a big deal to your brother and something he probably agonised over for a long time. Your parents' reaction might have come across as 'it's not big deal'."
"Which could translate to we don't really care. You saying 'dude they don't really care..' probably not what he wants to hear reinforced."
"I can see how it could be hurtful to your brother. However, personally your parents haven't done anything wrong. Good luck to all of you."~mymessytoddler
"NAH. It's great that your family is accepting, but our society isn't. It was probably difficult for your brother to figure this out and come out."
"A caring way to address what's happening would be to ask what he wanted to hear. Also straight ppl don't get to decide what the goal is for LGBTQ+ folks."
"Some folks might have a goal of, 'wanting it not to matter' but the fact is it does matter and it is a stigmatized identity. It really does sound like your parents were trying to be supportive, but maybe it wasn't enough for him."
"Your brother can be sad or disappointed and your parents can also be doing their best. These things can exist at once."
"When I came out to my parents they just said, 'we figured' and kinda quietly disapproved. It really hurt a lot, to be told implicitly and explicitly that who I authentically am is wrong and bad."
"I get that your parents did a lot better, but it sounds like your brother wanted to process more. It's really hard to explain, especially to people who think they're being super accepting."
"It's still hard. I don't think your parents are TA for not knowing what your bro wanted /needed to hear. And I don't think your bro is TA for needing more support. It's great that your family is accepting but that doesn't erase a lifetime of stigma."~Razrgrrl
"NAH. Coming out is scary, and people build it up in their heads a lot. He's probably been agonising over this and now all that adrenaline has nowhere to go, and anger is the easiest outlet."
"Your and your parents' reaction was also great - coming out shouldn't be a huge thing, it would be amazing if no one ever had to do it again."
"Maybe chat to your brother again, and let him know what he did was super brave, and you know it would have been really intimidating, but that he is loved and accepted and supported."~BellaSantiago1975
"Yeah, NAH. I'm surprised at how many straight people in this thread are boldly proclaiming what gay people think and what's best for them."
"Coming out is scary, no matter how supportive you think your family is. The way you and your family reacted wasn't wrong, but it also wasn't wrong of him to want a reaction that validates how strong his emotions were."~colorful-voice
When conflicting identities are at play, there's a lot to understand about the other person's experience before making any sort of judgment call.
"NAH. They probably knew it years ago. When my sister came out she came home one day and i was napping on the couch."
"She woke me to tell me so that I wouldn't hear it from others. I said thanks for telling me in person but i knew you were gay years ago."
"Rolled over and went back to sleep. My parents reaction was very similar. He probably worked it up in his head for weeks and was caught off guard by how anti-climactic it was to everyone else."~curbz81
"NAH. He was probably psyching himself up for either a painful or joyous moment. An emotional moment. Full of emotions himself, full of adrenaline even perhaps."
"And that huge build up of emotions ended in an anti-climax and that is okay. However all that emotional turmoil was for nothing as it were. For him it was a HUGE deal and then there was...nothing?"
"His emotions probably got the best of him there, ranting to you about your parents' reaction. So yeah, you are not the AH, but neither is he or your parents I think."
"It (unfortunately) takes courage to come out to your family and I think he'd wanted those emotions and that courage validated."~wolvster
"NAH. Your parents' reaction was fine, it's good that they accept your brother and aren't openly homophobic."
"But I'm gay, I've had to do the whole coming out thing, and it's really really scary."
"I think you have good intentions but downplaying the situation when someone comes out as 'they don't care that you're gay' isn't actually very helpful."
"You say the end goal isn't to care about sexual orientation, and again, I think you have good intentions, but that's not very helpful."
"In the world we live in being gay is still seen to be different. To be different is to feel isolation and fear. You and your family are supportive, but your brother didn't know that would be the case for sure."
"You'd be surprised to know how many families are 'liberal' on the surface but become nasty when one of their own turn out to be LGBTQ."
"Almost all gay people have heard these stories, we internalise these stories, and we know we can't take anyone's acceptance for granted until we know explicitly that we are loved and accepted."
"Okay, so coming out isn't worth a big celebration with bells and fireworks and cake. However, it can take a lot of energy and emotion to come out to someone and receiving an 'I don't care' or 'It's not a big deal' response can be underwhelming and hurtful."
"It matters to your brother. It wouldn't hurt to sit with him and say how you understand that it was a very brave action to come out and be explicitly clear that you accept he is gay and that you love and support him."~dragonfrvit
"NAH. It's okay to not treat coming out as a big deal, but all your brother wants is a little emotional support about a huge scary change in his life."
"Mention it to your parents. If they check in on him and see if he wants to have a conversation or talk about his experiences about it, I bet he'll feel a lot better."
"There's a difference between feeling like someone doesn't care about sexual orientation as in not judging the person for who they love and feeling like someone doesn't care about sexual orientation as in not caring about this aspect of who they are as a person."
"Maybe your brother just needs a little check-in so he can finally share the stuff he's been holding back while in the closet, or maybe he wants to talk about a guy he likes or his queer inspirations and he didn't feel like he had the space to do that."~heartsinhay
Being LGBTQ+ is still a scary experience! One never knows the way coming out will go in these scenarios.
It's nice that OP's parents and OP were so readily accepting, but those emotions surrounding coming out are powerful and difficult to let go of.
Hopefully these answers will inspire a productive conversation for OP and his brother.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp