Content Warning: Cheating and Affairs, Sexually-Transmitted Diseases (STDs), and Infertility
It's bad enough when a person loses their partner because their partner cheats on them.
But it's worse when they stay with their affair partner and leave behind a "gift" that no one wants, cringed the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor EducationalSurvey262 had been cheated on by her husband of ten years and watched him move on with his mistress, but not before realizing that she could no longer have children because of something he had shared with her.
When she realized that her ex's mistress also had the same problem because of him and couldn't have children, the Original Poster (OP) showed them no sympathy and refused to revisit their custody arrangement just to let the other couple "fulfill their parenting dreams."
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for telling my cheating ex-husband that I will never feel bad for him and I will never 'help him make this better'?"
The OP had to put her life back together after her husband left her for an affair partner.
"I (46 Female) was married to my ex-husband John (48 Male) for a decade when I found out he had cheated multiple times with multiple women, one of whom became a fully fledged affair."
"We had three young kids at the time."
"How I found out was I started suffering some concerning symptoms, went to the doctor, and some tests were run, and it was discovered I had gonorrhea, which had caused pelvic inflammatory disorder."
"The whole thing was devastating, and John didn't even pretend he was concerned about me, but he was concerned about his affair partner, Cathy."
"The two of them married after the divorce, and I had to pick up the pieces, deal with the consequences of John's cheating and his lasting gift, which left me unable to have more children with anyone else, and help my kids deal with the divorce."
"All while I had to be civil in front of the kids, which killed me. I had minimal contact with John and Cathy. I refused to speak to either unless I had to. A few times, they attempted additional contact with the aim of us being friends, but I shot that down, and I told the two of them to rot in hell."
The OP noticed that her children slowly grew apart from their dad.
"The kids had a good relationship with their dad until a few years ago."
"But John and Cathy were unable to have children together. I believe she had miscarriages and stillbirths, and my kids felt there was pressure on them to gather around them and love Cathy so she'd still feel like a mother."
"But none of them had a close relationship with her, and they felt like their dad was manipulative about it, so they started going to his house less and faded away."
"My youngest graduated in May and didn't invite John or Cathy to their graduation ceremony or party. There were discussions about it, but ultimately, he decided he would prefer to focus on his achievement and not the drama."
The OP's ex-husband pressured her to make her kids reconnect with him and his new wife.
"John attempted to get me to force my youngest's hand, and he tried to throw a pity party about their losses, and Cathy's love for the kids, and her losing the chance to be a mother."
"I would guess that his cheating was the cause of her fertility issues, too. I know I was left unable to conceive again after him. I was just lucky to have three kids before he went around spreading that STD like he did."
"I blocked him after several text messages about this."
"Now I've had him at my house trying to make me feel bad for him and Cathy by talking about all the losses and asking me to help him make this better."
"To him, it means he wants the kids back in his and Cathy's lives and for me to encourage them to love both of them and to let them, but especially Cathy, feel like she won't miss out on all the motherly experiences. He wanted me to treat her like their other mother and present as a team so that when weddings and babies come along, she'll be included and equal in all of it."
The OP was not interested in her ex's demands.
"I had no patience for his request, and even though he was already upset talking about the losses, I was not kind when I told him to get away from my house and from me."
"I told him I will never feel bad for him and that his pity party and attempt to make me responsible for their happiness after the way he treated me was outrageous."
"I told him he caused all of this, and he can fix it, but he doesn't deserve a single ounce of kindness or compassion from me after his actions in our marriage."
"He tried to argue, but I closed my front door, and he left after that."
The OP's former sister-in-law lashed out at her for how she handled the situation.
"I was on good terms with John's sister after everything went down, but once she heard about our interaction at my house, she turned on me."
"She told me she understands me hating them, but John has been broken up about all the losses they have endured, and I could have been a little kinder. And that I should want my kids to have John and Cathy in their lives. That I should be able to see it would be better for them and future grandkids."
"John's sister told me that my kids are still young enough to need my influence. And that John might have pushed Cathy on them too much, but cutting him out of their lives was too extreme for the action. That I should be correcting it because the kids love and trust me."
"However, I want them to keep loving and trusting me, which means supporting them."
"I told her I owed the two of them nothing and did not wish for their happiness."
"She always said he was trash for what he did. But that only goes so far with her, I suppose. As soon as I lacked sympathy for him, it changed things."
"She told me I had proven to be spiteful and hurt her brother when our divorce happened more than a decade ago now, and it's truly in the past."
The OP felt conflicted after that conversation.
"I'm disappointed that the relationship between us broke down, but I feel like it was possibly naive to think it would always survive what happened because John's her brother first."
"I do value her opinion, or did before this. I disagree with what she said, but I also feel like I shouldn't dismiss it without seeking others' opinions when I have always valued what she says before. Even though I believe this is just a loyalty thing at the end of it all."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that she was right not to fix her ex's problems for him.
"NTA. He just wants you to fix his failings because he can't be bothered to do it himself. You're not his wife, so that's not your problem."
"And tell his sissy to f**k off. You don't owe either of them a d**n thing." - redditlurker1981
"I really hate that SIL, a lot. Speculating but from OP's writing, I feel like the SIL judgment landed harder on her than John's self-pitying bulls**t."
"OP, John's sister is wrong, dead wrong. And if it happened to her, would she get over it, forgive and make a happy family with the man who gave her a disease and his new wife?"
"Of course not. They want you to shut up and make his life better so they don't have to listen to it."
"You are well within your rights, and she is totally off-base. I'd cut contact with her; you don't need someone who is not on your side judging your choices and behavior."
"NTA, in any particular." - PerniciousVim
"NTA, especially when it feels like John and Cathy are only forcing the issue because they weren't able to replace his existing children with new babies of their own."
"If it weren't for 'the losses,' would they even be trying to be involved in the adult children's lives? I don't think so." - Booplesnoot88
"If John's new wife had been able to make babies, I bet you anything he would have abandoned his existing children extremely quickly and focused on his new family."
"What's so shocking about the story isn't necessarily John's behavior because I can accept that narcissists exist; the thing that kills me is people who defend these egregious actions."
"It's absolutely insane that the sister thinks John's ex-wife, who he gave a dangerous venereal disease that can and probably has cause her health complications for the rest of her life, and who completely destroyed the marriage by serial cheating, thinks you can force teenagers and adult children to have a loving relationship with the people who were attempting to replace them and who actively harmed their mother."
"The Johns of this world are pieces of s**t, but they exist because of all of the enabling, and I'm really proud of OP for so clearly articulating she won't have him in her life and standing her ground." - thinksmartspeakloud
"I have a feeling John's sister will be low-key texting OP soon enough, b***hing about John once she gets fed up with his 'poor me, boo hoo' act."
"The worst part is she'll never admit OP was right even when she's griping about the same things she told OP she is wrong to get upset about." - Boxer03
Others agreed and pointed out that the OP's kids were old enough to decide for themselves.
"OP's kids are old enough and making their own decisions! Even if they were married, and they were somehow 'on the same team,' OP's kids have made a decision. They don't want to deal with their cheating dad and his wife."
"Most kids are just not going to feel warmth towards a woman who they feel contributed to breaking up their family. Most of my (now adult) friends have had a difficult time maintaining a long term relationship with the parent who cheated."
"Add to this, the dad and his wife want to do the whole 'we're all a big family' thing, which is totally hokey unless everyone is actually feeling it." - madmaxtacoeater
"There are so many stories on this sub and others about how it goes poorly when stepparents try to force a close relationship. Especially since 'a few years ago' means OP's youngest kid was already in his teens, and I don't know a single teenager who responds well to being pressured into a relationship."
"Even without the cheating, the kids would have become alienated from John and Cathy through their own doing. If OP tried to stand up for him, they would likely be upset at her, too." - ConstructionNo9678
"Auntie should be worried about her relationships with these grown kids, too, as they are not going to take kindly to her attempts to manipulate them any more than they did when their dad tried it."
"If those grandkids do come along, the kids will decide who they want in their children's lives, and this behaviour from auntie, dad and cathy is going to make those decisions a lot easier." - Beth21286
"NTA. Just block Auntie now and get it over with. Sit down with the kids and tell them they are responsible for their level of engagement with Dad and his homewrecker, as well as his sister and other relatives."
"Dad's Wife probably had gonorrhea, too, and it can be a cause of infertility. Whether she gave it to the OP's ex, who then gave it to the OP, or if OP's ex was getting around more than anyone knew, it's all karma." - anonanon-do-do-do
"He didn't thought one second about his kids or the consequences that were to come with his affair when he was busy sticking his d**k somewhere else. He don't get to come back crying and asking for help now because he is facing the consequences of his selfishness and poor choices."
"It's always so funny to me how cheaters think that they're cheating only stop at the spouse when they actually ALSO cheat on their kids. The ex-husband ruined his relationship with his children and his life alone."
"As for the ex-SIL, she can f**k off; I bet she wouldn't be having the same discourse if she were the one in OP's shoes. It's always easier to give unsolicited opinions and advice when they aren't the one going through the s**tty situation." - Tall_Hospital1071
"He doesn't want to be known as the cheater whose kids hate him. If OP fixes this, it fixes his image."
"He could be like, 'I did cheat, yes. But I met the love of my life and married her. I'm a changed man now. There was a rocky patch with the kids for a while, but my ex fixed it. My. Ex. Wife. Even she forgave me, see? If she doesn't hate me, you shouldn't either.'"
"It's all about the image. It's not even about his kids." - poignantname
The subReddit would not deny that infertility was heartbreaking, and they wouldn't directly wish it on anyone, but it did seem that it was entirely the ex-husband's fault for cheating, sleeping around, and causing the two primary women in his life to not be able to have children in the future.
If the ex-husband had wanted a relationship with his children from his marriage with OP, he should have ended the marriage before moving on with another partner. Maybe then he could have everything he wanted with Cathy without losing his relationship with his children.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp