Content Warning: Grieving Process, Dead Parents, Cheating, Affair
It's true that grieving is a messy process, and each person will address their grief in a different way, some even turning to questionable methods.
But grief is no excuse to suddenly act like a jerk and to do hurtful things like cheating, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor throwawayh77 knew that their wife was hurting after both of her parents passed away, and they tried to be there for her in any way that they could be.
But when she instead turned to someone else for comfort, the Original Poster (OP) wasn't sure they could ever look at her the same way ever again.
They asked the sub:
"WIBTAH (Would I be the a**hole) for divorcing my wife after she cheated after her parents died?"
The OP's wife was experiencing terrible grief.
"About a month ago, my wife's parents both died in a car crash. She has been an emotional mess."
"We live in her hometown, so we have been seeing her family and friends often."
"I've been supportive any way I can, I've taken care of all house chores, and I've been there for her every day."
The OP wasn't sure how to feel about the inclusion of their wife's ex.
"Here's where things get messy. She has an ex named Luke."
"Luke is not just her ex, Luke is still friends with her, and her first love. They were high school sweethearts, and Luke was almost like another child to her parents. The death of her parents affected Luke a lot, too."
"Honestly, I didn't initially liked the fact that they were friends, but I trust my wife, and moved on from that feeling."
But then the OP's wife did something she couldn't take back.
"A few days ago, my wife said she was going to go out with her family. I told her I could go with her, but she insisted on going alone."
"From what I know, she was with her sister for a while and some friends, including Luke. My wife excused herself, and her sister said she didn't know where she went and assumed she went back home."
"She didn't come back until the next morning. I tried to call her and call her family members, but no one knew where she was."
"When she did come back, she was a mess. I asked her where she was all night."
"She told me she f**ked up, that she f**ked up so much."
"I tried to calm her down, and told her to just tell what happened and that it's okay, she can talk to me. She said she slept with Luke."
The OP wasn't sure they could forgive their wife for what she had done.
"I didn't react much. I told her I needed some time to think."
"She has apologized so many times now."
"I did eventually ask her what happened."
"She said she met up with Luke and they were both messes. They reminisced about her parents, which led to them remembering their relationship. They were both drinking and it just... happened."
"I'm so conflicted right now. My wife is probably going through the worst time in her life, but I don't think I want to be with her now. I'm furious at her."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some theorized that nothing about the affair just "happened."
"Honestly, her saying no to you coming makes this seem pre-planned." - CrabbyPatty1876
"What stands out to me is you tried to be there for her and she preferred to go 'alone.' In the end, she wasn't just out with family and chose to find comfort in this guy. I would consider the reminiscing an excuse." - Unpopular_Opinion210
"Let's not play dumb here, OP. She knew what she was doing. If there was a group meeting including your SIL why couldn't you be there? She was expecting something to happen and it did."
"She preferred asking forgiveness to asking permission. Her perception of you is that you are a nice guy who will take her waterworks, her parents' death, and alcohol as an excuse to f**k another man." - Tfuentexxx
"She planned this. It's why you weren't allowed to go with her. And you know it."
"This is probably not the first time this has happened, either, OP."
"She probably only confessed because too many people who saw her disappear with Luke."
"You deserve better. Tell everyone Luke is the type of guy to take advantage of someone grieving to get laid."
"NTA." - _A-Q
"She claimed she was meeting with family, refused her husband's offer to come with her, and ghosted him for the night."
"This was totally pre-planned by her. He needs to get a divorce lawyer as soon as possible." - Few-Concern2938
"This sounds deliberate. As in intentionally deciding to be alone with Luke."
"That's not a mistake. A mistake is accidentally putting salt in the coffee. An intentional action is deciding to pour salt into your spouse's coffee cup." - Dana07620
"She didn't want you there, OP. It was pre-planned and she's acting like it was some big mistake. Cheating is never a mistake."
"She is absolutely hurting, I won't deny that. But that gives her zero excuse to turn around and betray you like this." - Beth_Esda
Others agreed and said changes would need to be made for this to work out.
"She decided Luke WAS the person to comfort her, but it wasn't as good as she thought it would be, and she came home to confess afterward."
"It didn't just happen. They planned it. They met. They drank. They went somewhere. They got undressed. She went to the bathroom beforehand. He checked his breath and took a mint."
"It 'just happened'... like they tripped on a crack in the sidewalk. 'Whups!'" - ap1msch
"I bet Luke isn't regretting anything. OP if you decide to try reconciliation she is going to have to go full no contact with Luke."
"If she refuses to do that at as a bare minimum, she is choosing her relationship with him over her relationship with you and is not serious about reconciliation."
"Sorry, but this is going to be a rough emotional ride through h**l that she has forced upon you by her selfish betrayal."
"Grief is not an excuse, so don't bring that into the equation when making your decision." - Necessary_Tap343
"She knew what would happen before refusing your company. Don't believe for a second that she didn't. I'm sure you'll find a ton of shit if you look through their messages with each other, or you'll find missing/deleted texts."
"I would say to investigate if you didn't have proof, but at this point, divorce is the only option."
"Ask yourself this, you're only allowed one word for each answer. Trying to 'understand' or rationalize her betrayal will have you right back where you started… on the floor as a doormat."
"What kind of person cheated on a spouse they love while grieving the loss of both parents? Do you want to be with that kind of person?" - rodofpleasure
"Look, she might be remorseful now, but she told you not to come. She didn't update her sister. She knew there was a chance this could happen."
"This was absolutely not a random drunken hookup. She may not have completely pursued it, but she unlocked the doors and made sure you were gone. She took advantage of the situation."
"I'm sure her life sucks right now after losing her parents. If your relationship was good I definitely wouldn't scream and yell at her, but I don't see how you recover from that."
"I would contact a lawyer immediately. Even if you haven't decided whether you want to divorce or not, it sounds like he has his hooks in her, and you don't want get financially hurt as well."
"Just find out what you need to do to protect yourself, and it might not hurt to check her phone. This might not be the only time." - AllTheTakenNames
"How can she tell you not to come, but meet with him?"
"I'm sure she's hurting, and life is hard right now for her, but this seems like an overall setup. Even if she didn't plan to cheat, there was a reason she wanted him there, and you not there, and that is where I would be concerned."
"Sorry, but I think this one is over. How could you trust her if she wanted to go hang out with her friends without you again?" - tooearlytoothink
Some were deeply hurt on the OP's behalf because his wife chose someone else during her darkest hour.
"Jesus, I had a pit in my stomach as I read OP's story. Instead of thinking of being with OP during her time of grief, she decided to be with the man she actually loved." - Jakunobi
"Besides the cheating, in her darkest moment, she actively rejected her husband's comfort."
"She ran to Luke, even if the intention was not originally to cheat. That says a lot of really complicated and deep things about the relationship before you even get to the cheating."
"Even if they didn't have sex, that alone probably warrants some deep and difficult talks and maybe couple's therapy." - letstrythisagain30
"When my mother died, all I wanted was for my husband to be there for me. Beyond him and other immediate family members, I wanted to hide away from the world until I adjusted to my new reality. I can guarantee that no ex even entered my mind for a second." - SamiHami24
"She wasn't just out with her family. Her ex who is NOT family was there but her husband who IS her family wasn't allowed by her to be there? Nope. No excuse for her. And OP is so NTA." - RebelBean223344
"I have lost a parent, grandparents, and a sibling. The last thing on my mind was cheating. I had a hard enough time just getting up out of bed some days. I was so depressed." - This_Acanthisitta832
"This is one of the hardest times in her life, and if she isn't choosing her husband to help her through this time, what is she even doing with him? Now that he knows that he isn't her person when she is struggling, why is he with her?"
"She had choices, even through her grief, that should have been obvious. She knew it was a possibility that she was going to sleep with him, she used her grief as an excuse, hoping that her husband would be okay with it."
"If my wife treated me with such disdain, I couldn't stay. OP has a decision of his own to make." - vanzir
"Grief does crazy things to you. When my dad died, I realized my husband couldn't emotionally support me when I needed him the most, and a light bulb switched on and our marriage was over for me mentally two weeks after my dad died. It took me nine months to leave with couples counseling."
"She is intentionally sabotaging your relationship together. But no one throws away their marriage for no reason. She probably can't fully admit it to herself yet."
"But the marriage is over, in her time of crisis, she didn't reach out to you for support, for whatever reason. The emotional safety between you both is gone." - HenryAlbusNibbler
While the subReddit empathized with the terrible time the OP's wife must be having without her parents in her life any longer, they could not forgive the fact that there were many opportunities for her to make a different choice than the one she made.
By choosing her ex over her marital partner, by going somewhere alone with him, and by involving alcohol in the equation, even if she never meant to cheat, she made it incredibly convenient, and that speaks volumes.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp