Grief is not a straight line.
There's no quick fix, no simple set of steps to follow when finding our way through the woods of grief.
The challenge, though, is that our path through loss often effects those around us.
So, what happens when the path you're taking isn't just not helping, but actively hurting those around you?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) living4themomentz when he came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
He asked:
"AITA for telling my wife that not every major milestone can go back to her mother?"
OP opened with the bad news.
"My wife lost her mother to cancer 2 years ago."
"It was horrible and took a toll on everyone, but obviously my wife more than anything."
"They were very close, pretty much best friends."
"We knew it was coming and the illness took over our lives, which is to be expected."
"I also knew my wife would struggle when she finally did pass so I tried to convince her to go to therapy but she's refused."
OP then introduced the rest of the family.
"We have two older children (13 and 6) and this year, she gave birth to our youngest."
"This is the only grandchild my MIL never got to meet."
"The whole pregnancy was very bittersweet and my wife kept saying 'I wish mom was here, I wish mom could meet him, etc'. Again, to be expected."
"But the issue has come up that even before our son was born, every event went back to her mom."
"At first I understood but in time, it's become like we have this cloud hanging over us, preventing us from fully enjoying happy moments."
"I've tried talking to my wife about it, gently but she gets super defensive and refuses to even talk about therapy."
"Our eldest turned 13 over the weekend."
"She had spoken to her mom privately and said she'd really like for their to be no talk of her grandmother."
"She wanted to have a happy celebration and not get sad that her grandmother isn't there. My wife agreed."
"We went out to dinner and everything was fine."
"Towards the end, we had cake."
Everything was fine, until...
"My wife said 'it's just so sad that grandma can't be here! She'd be so proud of who (eldest) has turned out to be! I wish she could be here!"'
"Our eldest got mad."
"She blew out her candles but didn't speak the rest of the dinner."
"When we got home, I spoke to my wife privately and said what she did wasn't fair."
"I said she could've excused herself if she was that emotional, but she honestly didn't seem to be."
"I told her that this can't continue to happen. She told me that wasn't fair. I said what isn't fair is this rain cloud she forces over us."
"She's been off ever since and won't really talk to me or our eldest. She says we're insensitive."
OP was left to wonder,
"AITA??"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judtment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: NTA
Some pointed out that this sort of behavior can cause more problems than it solves.
"NTA it's enough of a constant situation that your daughter who's only 13 literally asked her in advance not to do it this one time for her own birthday celebration and your wife wouldn't not do it."
"It's obviously a problem." ~ dart1126
"I was thinking that there might be an unfortunate cycle going on where daughter and other family members mention grandma less because they don't want to set wife off."
"And wife mentions her more because she thinks everyone else is forgetting her." ~ looc64
Others agreed that wife needs outside help.
"NTA."
"Your wife needs grief counselling."
"She's TA -"
"Your child just had her entrance into being a teenager made about death by her mother."
"It's not about her grandma."
"It's not about your wife. It's about your kid. And that was denied to her. Your WIFE is being insensitive, not you or your child."
"I get it - my da died just before I got pregnant and it's so hard that my daughter won't know him and love him as I did. But children's birthdays aren't about dead people."
"My family, at Christmas, Easter, and on the dinners we have on the deceased's birthdays give a toast 'to our boys' (my da, brothers, and nephew have all passed away)."
"And it's just that - we raise our glasses and say a toast to them at the start, then there's no more discussion of dead people."
"But I wouldn't ever make my kid's birthday about the dead."
"We wouldn't toast our dead at a 13 yo's birthday unless like…the person died the week before."
"Even then, it would be about what the kid wants."
"Some people find solace in remembrance."
"Others find only pain. Your daughter was 11 when she lost her grandma in a big illness - it's probably one of her more traumatic memories."
"She doesn't want trauma to define her birthday."
"NTA. You defended your child against your wife's insensitivity." ~ NobleCorgi
"Perhaps if it was phrased this way 'grief counselling' rather than therapy wife might see it differently."
"When my mother died (similar scenario, she was my bestfriend, long terminal illness) my grief counsellor helped me:"
"Understand being really sad js normal Gave me an outlet to BE sad and get empathy and support."
"Find ways to honour my mother in everyday life Focus on the fact that my mother would NOT want me to be miserable."
"She would want me to thrive Work through milestones (which will occur YEARS later)."
"Practice relaxation exercises."
"Ensure I was making time for activities that fuel me and make me happy."
"Work on routines (an issue I was having)."
"Find additional resources to experience & work through my grief Access to events and groups for people experiencing similar grief."
"Relate honouring my mother to acts that bring joy to myself and others (very much her nature) And even more stuff I am probably nothing of now, and this was only over a few months of seeing her."
"I lost my mother in March and this Christmas is obviously a big 1st without her, but I've already found ways and traditions to help me cope with it so far."
"AND honour her (like buying presents for kids in foster care, something she always got us involved in when younger)."
"Additionally it should be noted that OPs wife just had a baby, so there are probably a lot of hormones, stress and sleep deprivation adding to the situation right now."
"(And risk to wife's general mental healthy anyway) but when it is getting to the point it is hurting her children she really needs to think about what she can do for herself and the whole family." ~ andstillwerise12
There were also personal stories.
"You just reminded me of what I like to call the worst birthday ever."
"My brother died about a week before my birthday and the funeral was the day before."
"My father, with only good intentions, bought me a card as though it was from my brother."
"I call it the most depressing birthday card."
"I got to open it, now knowing what I was about to see, while surrounded by my extended family who had come for the funeral."
"I can look back on it and laugh at the horror but holy shit, it was a depressing night." ~ denna84
"Agree with this. I lost both my parents 3 weeks apart when I was pregnant with my first born."
"This was 2 years ago."
"I grieved for a year. When I wasn't progressing I got PTSD and grief counselling."
"I still feel like I have a massive hole in my life but I'm not going to bring my babies up with doom and gloom."
"Yes… I still cry in private and birthdays/holidays ARE hard… but I keep that to myself until I can talk about it privately with my husband later."
"Your wife is TA for not getting help." ~ Independent-College7
"This."
"OP, I lost my grandpa two years ago."
"I'm honestly still struggling."
"I go to therapy almost every week."
"I do sometimes bring up my grandpa on holidays, but only to my husband, I don't want my kids thinking about sad things when they're supposed to be having a happy day."
"When they bring him up, I reassure them that he's missed, but he'd want them to have a good day."
"And I don't spend the whole event miserable."
"Your wife needs to get into therapy."
"It won't magically make everything better, but it should help her in healing and in figuring out appropriate ways to remember her mom on holidays." ~ crystallz2000
Grief is not a straight line.
There are good days, bad days, and every moment in between.
It is a dangerous and thick wood to go through and it can be helpful, just like with any hike, to have a good guide.
If not for your sake, then for your travelling companions.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp