Divorce is further complicated when there are children involved.
After all, a parent still wants what is best for their children despite the dissolution of marriage.
One man who identifies as an atheist noticed a significant change in appearance from his kids, whom he shares custody with his ex-wife.
When he later learned the truth behind his young daughter's new manner of dress under a religion he was not familiar with, his next move incurred major frustration from his former wife.
So he visited the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit to seek judgment from strangers online.
There, Redditor concerned_parent1000 asked:
"AITA for letting my daughter wear whatever she is comfortable in, in my house?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"Okay, this requires some important details. First, I am a (37 M[ale]). My ex wife, 'Deanna' (36 F[female]) and I have 2 kids, our daughter 'Jane (12 F[female]) and our son 'Eddie' (10 M[ale]). We got married semi young at 23 and 24, we divorced amicably five years ago."
"Deanna recently married a man she has been seeing for a few years, who I will call 'A.' Something I need to bring up here is that I am half Mexican, Deanna is a white woman, and A is of Middle Eastern descent."
"While I wouldn't say A and I are friends, I do think he's a pretty nice guy, and seems like a really good match for Deanna. The kids also like him, so that's another bonus in my book."
The OP continued:
"Deanna and I split custody of the kids. HOWEVER. Deanna and A got married two months ago. Since then, Deanna has chosen to wear a covering, which I am sorry but the name slips my mind."
"She converted to A's religion as well. Which, I'm very happy about if that's what she wants. But last week, when she dropped off the kids, I was surprised to see that Jane was wearing one as well."
"But, I assumed she must have wanted to wear it and was maybe deciding to convert her faith as well, so I didn't bring it up. I feel that she's old enough to decide for herself, and as an atheist myself, I'm all for my children choosing what they believe."
The OP's mindset changed after the following incident.
"A few days ago, I was going to go see a movie with my kids but told them I had to finish some paperwork in my office first, which took about half an hour. When I walked back into the living room, Jane was wearing one of Eddie's t shirts and a pair of shorts. We had a conversation which kind of went like this:"
"Me: what's going on? Jane, are you supposed to take off your covering? (I don't really know how any of it works, sorry if that offends anyone)"
"Eddie: she hates wearing that stuff. So I let her borrow some of my clothes."
"Jane: yeah dad, I hate it. Mom makes me wear it. She says I have to wear it all the time, even at your house."
"Me: so, you aren't choosing to wear it?"
"Jane: no. I never want to wear it again."
"I checked her bag, and sure enough, it contained tank tops underwear, and the coverings (which cover the hair and body, but not the face.) I took the kids on a quick target trip before the movie to get Jane some clothes of her liking."
"Two days ago, when Deanna came by to pick up the kids, she flipped out on Jane for not wearing the traditional clothing. Deanna and I got into a heated argument, and I told her that Jane shouldn't HAVE TO wear the covering if she doesn't want to, especially because it's very hot in our city."
"Deanna argued that she and the kids are now different and follow a stricter religion, I might be the a-hole because I argued back that it is stupid that the religion would force young girls to cover up so much all the time and be so strict about it."
"Deanna took offense, and left with the kids. I feel bad because I don't want to insult a while country or countries but I don't think my daughter should have to wear anything she doesn't want to. AITA?"
Anonymous strangers weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Many Redditors thought the OP was not the a**hole (NTA) here.
"NTA."
"So the covering is called a hijab, but Islam does NOT require women to cover. Plenty of Muslim women are not hijabi. The decision to cover, ideally, should be a personal one. One that you feel personally called/lead to. Plenty of Muslim women adopt the hijab well into adulthood and/or also go through times of covering and not covering for this reason."
"What I'm saying is: you're not wrong, but you're blaming the wrong thing."
"It's Deanna and A's decision to make her cover like this. They are the ones who have this requirement for her, and they are blaming religion so that they don't personally look like the bad guys for instituting modesty rules. Tell them that their modesty rules are for their house only."
"And you may even find allies within their religious community who would vehemently oppose a girl being forced to cover against her will, especially when her father opposes this. Perhaps even their Imam." – CrewelSummer
"I see this rather more suspiciously."
"Converting to another religion (of any kind) is a long process which involves instruction from leaders of the new religion and usually involving smaller induction rites before you are a full member of that religion. It doesn't sound as though this has happened in Deanna's case."
"Also, the previous commenter is correct that the coverings are not mandated in the Muslim religion and only implemented if a woman feels a personal calling to do so in adulthood."
"I do not believe that forcing a child (who is not Muslim) to cover up is part of the religion, therefore, feel that A is a controlling person who maybe forcing this onto your daughter and possibly even Deanna."
"Such controlling behaviour leads to other DV actions."
"You as your daughter's parent are required to protect and advocate for your children and to assist them if they are not in a safe, healthy environment." – Boring-Article7511
"You are correct. I have a cousin who married a Persian Muslim. They just wear American styles (just more modest versions. No prairie dresses for example.) If you didn't know, you would not guess. They are quite devout. It is a more a cultural thing than a religious thing, I think." – ANoisyCrow
"I'd definitely look into getting a court to revisit the custody agreement. If your daughter would rather be at your house more often because of this, I feel like at age 12 a judge would likely take her wishes into consideration, especially given this new forced religion debacle."
"It'd be different if it was you and your wife under one roof and she's always been brought up this way, but it's not and you both have very different ideas of how this should go. The fact that this is being sprung on her now, as a preteen, is even more concerning and, I'm sure, very confusing for her."
"This impacts her at home as well as school, and if she was of the faith I'd say tally ho but since she's not if could lead to exacerbated bullying. She could already get bullied just for wearing hijab (whole other can of worms) but if she believed in it at least she'd have that solace."
"Here she's being forced into doing something against her will out of nowhere it's gonna cause problems. It could also have lasting effects on her outlook, relationships, and self confidence going forward."
"Even if you daughter chose to spend the same amount of time with your ex, at least she'd have the option and therefore more freedom with a backup of being able to only see the ex on weekends or whatever arrangement is made." – JupiterSkyFalls
"OP you need to go back to court NOW!! This is only going to get worse your exes new guy is gonna force your children into the religion and then God forbid try to force a marriage on her. You need an attorney like yesterday. YWBTA if you don't do something now." – Thesexyone-698
"You REALLY need to get more informed about this religion OP. What if you ex-wife asks if she can take your daughter to visit her new husband's family? You give permission and never see your daughter again. I know some great Muslims."
"But there are many, many stories on line about females taken to meet relatives only to be forced to marry before they have opportunity to date and 'sin'. The fact that this couple is making your daughter dress in accordance with a religion she does not follow is VERY worrisome."
"Protect your daughter OP.Ask her if she wants to continue to got to her mother's home if they are going to force hero dress this way. If not --then step up and ask for full time.A child should never be coerced into any religion." – FireBallXLV
"A Muslim friend told me that one of the biggest sins in Islam is interfering with other ppls relationship with Allah which is exactly what your ex and new husband is doing. I'd really be studying hard on the topic of social control and consider how much of a say your daughter should have from now on and fight for it."
"I'm not antiislam but I am staunchly against pushing any religious agenda on kids, especially when they're not interested." – Thedonkeyforcer
While a strong majority of Redditors sided with the OP as not being in the wrong, they expressed deep concern for the well-being of the daughter.
Many believed that A was using his religion to be controlling and manipulative of the OP's ex-wife, and they strongly encouraged him to consider options that would protect their daughter's future.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp