Holidays can bring a lot of joy.
And an equal measure of anxiety.
One sticking point for many families with young children is where to spend their time. Do they stay home or go to visit their parents?
A girlfriend tired of last-minute cancellations by her boyfriend's mother turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback on a hypothetical "Would I Be The A**hole" (WIBTA) question.
Aggressive_Cup_1393 asked:
"WIBTA for visiting my mom for Christmas instead osumother-in-law (MIL), after MIL cancelled on us 2 years in a rows even though she has bad health issues?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I've never posted before so I hope this makes sense and isn't too long. Me (38, female) and boyfriend (36, male) have two kids (4, male and 1, female). We've been together for 8 years."
"Our families don't really live close to us. My mom lives a 10-12 hour drive from us, his dad/my father-in-law (FIL) lives an 8-9 drive from us (4-6 hours from my mom), and his mom (MIL) lives a 4-6 hour drive from us."
"His stepdad lives about an hour from us, but we don't see him super often as he has a lot of health issues and is busy with doctors."
"In the four years since our son was born, we did Christmas at home, then at my mom's house, and then two years in a row we organized our entire grandparent visiting schedule around planning to see his mom for Christmas."
"Each year, she cancelled at the last minute. I LOVE Christmas and was very upset, and yes, I was an idiot to agree to it again after the first year."
"We ended up having a super low-key lunch with his stepdad both years, which was fine, but still. Also, please note, the second cancelled year was when we had a 2-month-old baby, whom she hadn't yet met."
"Both of those years, we visited later in January, I think, and both years it was underwhelming. She is a part time carer for her dad."
"I think he's the reason for the second cancelled year? Nobody else could take care of him, I guess?"
"And often when we visit, she's gone most of the day. We had plans to do a proper belated celebration with nice dinner and presents, but it never happened."
"This year, I am insisting we visit my mom for Christmas and his mom for Thanksgiving, which is two days after our son's birthday, so it could be a special combo celebration."
"Another factor is that my mom can't host us for a Thanksgiving trip, or really any time until later in December. Her partner is currently recovering from major surgery, is sofa-bound essentially, and has to use a wheelchair, and isn't really up for company while he's recovering."
"My boyfriend told her, and she requested we switch, so she could have us and sister-in-law (SIL) all together. SIL lives with her, but does Thanksgiving at FIL's house every year."
"I do not want to do it, and when I told him, he got very disappointed, saying his mom will be really upset and that he's worried about her health, and what if it's the last chance to have Christmas with her."
"She DOES have a lot of health issues (Crohns, autoimmune stuff, thyroid removed, not sure what else), and he says she downplays it, but when he Googles stuff she has told him, all the results are alarming and I guess leading him to feel this intense worry."
"Am I the a**hole for not wanting to go and for insisting we see my mom?"
"I am a huge pushover by nature when it comes to this kind of thing and also have a very hard time being able to tell when my choices/thoughts are fair and justified or out of line and a**hole-ish."
The OP later added:
"Why did she cancel each year? So last year, I think the main reason was she couldn't get time away from caring for her dad. Her dad has multiple carers, including someone who is an actual professional, but he treats MIL like a default option."
"The other carers had vacations booked, and MIL didn't think she'd have time for us. The previous year, I actually can't recall exactly. I remember she said it 'wasn't a good time,' and it might have included her and SIL (they live together) both having some minor injuries that limited mobility."
"She has actually last-minute cancelled many trips, so they are starting to blur together I'm realizing (including one memorable summer occasion where we called to say 'hey, we are about to pack up the car and drive to you, should we bring bathing suits?' and she said 'oh, didn't I tell you? It would be best if you come next month."
"Ultimately, my mental calculus was divorced from the reason for each cancellation, just focusing on the fact that the cancellations exist and she's not super reliable—perhaps understandably. But still!"
"Why can't we just stay home and tell everyone to come to us? We live in a small townhouse, and nobody involved except my mom would be willing to sleep on an air mattress crammed into my office. The logistics with all the family members also wouldn't really work out with everyone being able to travel."
The OP summed up why they might be the a**hole in their situation.
"I refuse to visit my boyfriend's mom for Christmas even though she's in poor health, and he thinks it's unfair for me to choose my mom."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP would not be the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA. Twice now you have been let down by her at a time of year you treasure greatly."
"Your two actual disappointments beat your partner's one future disappointment."
"Anyway, it's not even that his mother *can't do Thanksgiving, it's that she wants it done her way again, and who's to say she won't cancel again?"
"Meanwhile, you haven't had Christmas with your own mother for several years. It's time you did so." ~ Ma-Hu
"So wait, his mother wants to overrule your mother's needs?"
"Ask him how he will feel putting strain and stress on your mother and if he is willing to apologise and tell her it was all for nothing when his mother cancels Christmas AGAIN."
"Ask him if he is willing to ruin your household's family Christmas AGAIN for the third year in a row. Explain that your kids are young now, they won't remember, but the pictures that are taken will show that once again, family is missing because his mother cancelled AGAIN."
"It's time he accepts that his mother is unreliable and needs to relegate her to a smaller holiday." ~ Environmental_Art591
"You choose to alternate who you plan Christmas with in order to keep things fair. She cancelled the year you planned with her (and the next one); it's not her turn anymore. She needs to wait until it is her turn again." ~ booch
"I think another important thing is that you didn't just say no. You offered something and she declined/requested a different accommodation. Seeing you at all should be more important than seeing you together with SIL." ~ Organic_Razzmatazz72
"First of all, tell him to stop Googling medical stuff. Of course, it will seem alarming. But that doesn't mean it actually is."
"Second of all, Thanksgiving with MIL and Christmas with your family seems like a fine compromise on its own. Throw in that she has had to cancel last-minute the last two years, I likely wouldn't plan to attend an event she hosts again."
"And husband saying 'this could be her last Christmas' is meaningless. It could also be her last Thanksgiving, by that logic. Better get in for the closer one."
"Overall, NTA. You can FaceTime MIL and celebrate on a different day. It's unfair to have to cancel Christmas two years in a row. No reason to risk cancelling a third. Your children deserve a stress-free Christmas that doesn't come with a last-minute change of plans." ~ Sami_George
The OP provided an update:
"First of all thank you so much to everyone who commented. I came here to just vent and see if maybe someone could tell me if I was out of line, and y'all went above and beyond."
"I wanted the full spectrum of interpretations and opinions, since taking all that in and then making a decision/assessment of things is my preferred way of operating, and I sure got what I wanted!"
"Even those comments that called me a heartless jerk, I value that because it's a potential way my thoughts and actions could be viewed, so it's something valuable for me to keep in mind."
"I realized I had been harboring a lot of negative thinking and resentment towards MIL and that whole branch of the family, and it was making the entire situation very fraught in my mind, so any concession felt irritating and unfair."
"Reading through all the comments that delved into her possible POV kind of exorcised my resentment and bad feelings and I feel a lot more charitable towards her. Many, many people also said incredibly validating things and made me feel more secure in my thinking."
"Good news! To those of you who suggested a New Year's Eve trip to MIL, THANK YOU! I proposed doing MIL's house for Thanksgiving/toddler birthday, my mom for Christmas, and then MIL for NYE, and it went over with zero fuss or pushback."
"Yes, it's a lot of travel, yes, I'm going to be stressed about it, yes, the kids will probably be fed up with being in the car. But it's just one year, and time with family is worth it."
"So thank you all so much!"
It sounds like the OP found the best solution for everyone.
Hopefully, they have a happy holiday season.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp